i kinda left someting out.........dont get mad, just think about this a minute..........
it is illegal to run cougar and bears in oregon with hounds, right?
most know that a dog can distinguish a bobcat from a lion, a coon, a bear, a grey fox from a red fox, a deer, the list goes on correct?
then why would a person that hunts bobcats or coons or fox or anything else that is legal to hunt with hounds, let their dogs run something that is not legal?
does it make it right that only certain people can do this?
what happens when you are not working with the fish and wildlife and you have no snow to see what you are running with your dogs, you go hunting and you end up catching a lion, or a bear?
do you get in trouble and lose your hunting priviliges just like the rest of us folks would?
do you get after your dogs because they ran it?
or is it ok?
personally, if it is illegal, i dont think that anybody should be able to do it. at all!
i also think that what is fair for one should be fair for all......jmo!
what is legal for one should be legal for all, and vice versa.
i hope that this sticks with a few.
Cougar running around in Oregon Neighborhood
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walkersrule
- Bawl Mouth
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- Location: oregon
- Location: sw oregon
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U.R.E.
- Bawl Mouth
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- Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: OR
- Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Re: Cougar running around in Oregon Neighborhood
Looks as if this has turned into two different topic. 1) Over turning BM18 2) Should the state be allowed to appoint houndsmen to handle problem cougars.
I have been in the position to read and listen to many conversations from all across the state. My opition based on my experiance and my education is:
On issue 1)
We get very distracted by our emotional response to the blame game. We spend our time, and money in many cases, trying to point fingers. The result of this is we start sub catagorizing amongst ourselves and lose perspective. Regardless of our opinion as to who is responsible we must stay focused on the goal if we are ever going to make progress in over turning BM18. We must learn to effectively communicate with the public and with the decision makers. I would like nothing more than to travel this state teaching fellow houndsmen effective communication. We have to beat them at thier own game and that is communication. We have to motivate voters emotionally.
Bottom line here is, if you are a houndsman that practices ethics and has integrity your opinion matters even if it isn't the same as mine. You are a fellow houndsmen and that is THAT, but we must keep our eye on the ball.
Issue 2)
This is a difficult one. I have participated in state run projects that allowed me to tree cougars for the state. None of the cats where killed only collared and studied. My participation in that project angered other houndsmen at me personally. I had threats made to me and my dogs because of it. I didn't allow this to derail me from my goal. My goal was not to help ODF&W but to change the way ODF&W viewed the houndsmen. Prior to this project ODF&W had no working relationship with houndsmen. Historically the relationship between ODF&W and houndsmen, for the most part, involved some type of game violation, or in some cases ,the houndsmen had been convicted of several game violations in the past. I worked daily over a 19 month period building a relationship with ODF&W. I worked with some of the best men and women I have known, who I to this day consider family. I presented professionally, ethically and dependably taking every opportunity to remind them that this project would not happen if it wasn't for the houndsmen. The result was that I to this day get calls from decision makers inside ODF&W asking for input from houndsmen. Make no mistake the language "most effective management tool is hounds" is not a mistake or happen by chance. I'm not boasting I only hope that this help to motivate us to think outside the box. Those folks that are participating in the "cougar plan" have an opportunity for their dogs as well as to represent us. I have decided not to participate in my area for 2 reasons. Despite the risk to your dog and the expense you get nothing. No extended season to keep your pack in shape, NOTHING. Second is that I'm a board member for OUSDA and feel it would violate the overall census of the members.
Should the state allow hounds to be used to protect livestock and public safety? My opinion is "yes". Our neighbor the rancher has it as hard now as he ever has. We should in good faith help him out. I don't know about you but if I had the ability to prevent a human from being killed or mauled I would have to do it. We have to take these opportunities to effectively communicate that the houndsmen and the hound prevented further damage or death(s). We need to demonstrate that the hound and houndsmen did not create the situation or the death of the cat. We simply treed the animal and the decision to kill it or not was not ours. We implemented one of many tools used to address the situation.
Does illegal mean illegal? Consider this scenario: Your child has just been struck by a car and emergency services obey all speed limits because it's illegal to brake them. Or, someone has broken into your home and you have shot and killed him/her. Should you face prison time?
FYI....My dogs have only had two cougars harvested over them EVER. One in Oregon on a predation hunt and one out of state. Neither of I pulled the trigger on. I would rather have a field full of cougar than a field full of deer. Cougar tree, deer don't, I've tryed
I have been in the position to read and listen to many conversations from all across the state. My opition based on my experiance and my education is:
On issue 1)
We get very distracted by our emotional response to the blame game. We spend our time, and money in many cases, trying to point fingers. The result of this is we start sub catagorizing amongst ourselves and lose perspective. Regardless of our opinion as to who is responsible we must stay focused on the goal if we are ever going to make progress in over turning BM18. We must learn to effectively communicate with the public and with the decision makers. I would like nothing more than to travel this state teaching fellow houndsmen effective communication. We have to beat them at thier own game and that is communication. We have to motivate voters emotionally.
Bottom line here is, if you are a houndsman that practices ethics and has integrity your opinion matters even if it isn't the same as mine. You are a fellow houndsmen and that is THAT, but we must keep our eye on the ball.
Issue 2)
This is a difficult one. I have participated in state run projects that allowed me to tree cougars for the state. None of the cats where killed only collared and studied. My participation in that project angered other houndsmen at me personally. I had threats made to me and my dogs because of it. I didn't allow this to derail me from my goal. My goal was not to help ODF&W but to change the way ODF&W viewed the houndsmen. Prior to this project ODF&W had no working relationship with houndsmen. Historically the relationship between ODF&W and houndsmen, for the most part, involved some type of game violation, or in some cases ,the houndsmen had been convicted of several game violations in the past. I worked daily over a 19 month period building a relationship with ODF&W. I worked with some of the best men and women I have known, who I to this day consider family. I presented professionally, ethically and dependably taking every opportunity to remind them that this project would not happen if it wasn't for the houndsmen. The result was that I to this day get calls from decision makers inside ODF&W asking for input from houndsmen. Make no mistake the language "most effective management tool is hounds" is not a mistake or happen by chance. I'm not boasting I only hope that this help to motivate us to think outside the box. Those folks that are participating in the "cougar plan" have an opportunity for their dogs as well as to represent us. I have decided not to participate in my area for 2 reasons. Despite the risk to your dog and the expense you get nothing. No extended season to keep your pack in shape, NOTHING. Second is that I'm a board member for OUSDA and feel it would violate the overall census of the members.
Should the state allow hounds to be used to protect livestock and public safety? My opinion is "yes". Our neighbor the rancher has it as hard now as he ever has. We should in good faith help him out. I don't know about you but if I had the ability to prevent a human from being killed or mauled I would have to do it. We have to take these opportunities to effectively communicate that the houndsmen and the hound prevented further damage or death(s). We need to demonstrate that the hound and houndsmen did not create the situation or the death of the cat. We simply treed the animal and the decision to kill it or not was not ours. We implemented one of many tools used to address the situation.
Does illegal mean illegal? Consider this scenario: Your child has just been struck by a car and emergency services obey all speed limits because it's illegal to brake them. Or, someone has broken into your home and you have shot and killed him/her. Should you face prison time?
FYI....My dogs have only had two cougars harvested over them EVER. One in Oregon on a predation hunt and one out of state. Neither of I pulled the trigger on. I would rather have a field full of cougar than a field full of deer. Cougar tree, deer don't, I've tryed
Ultimate Redneck Experience.
HUNT WHAT YOU LIKE, LIKE WHAT YOU HUNT
HUNT WHAT YOU LIKE, LIKE WHAT YOU HUNT
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walkersrule
- Bawl Mouth
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- Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:11 pm
- Location: oregon
- Location: sw oregon
Re: Cougar running around in Oregon Neighborhood
what i am saying is this............
if someone sits back and lets someone take something from them on a daily basis, that person is not going to stop taking.
it is only when you stand up for yourself that this problem is stopped!
bottom line!
they only want us around when they need something from us don, kinda like someone we both knew in the past.
let the population grow, sooner or later they will need us and have no other choice than to give us a season back. but they dont need to because were helping them out right now. see what im talking about?
tax payers money goes to college kids every summer to do stream surveys. what do they learn? how to waste government $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thats a fact!
wether you like it or not or realize it or not our rights and privilages are getting to be less and less, daily. untill someone gets a backbone and says that enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!
if someone sits back and lets someone take something from them on a daily basis, that person is not going to stop taking.
it is only when you stand up for yourself that this problem is stopped!
bottom line!
they only want us around when they need something from us don, kinda like someone we both knew in the past.
let the population grow, sooner or later they will need us and have no other choice than to give us a season back. but they dont need to because were helping them out right now. see what im talking about?
tax payers money goes to college kids every summer to do stream surveys. what do they learn? how to waste government $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thats a fact!
wether you like it or not or realize it or not our rights and privilages are getting to be less and less, daily. untill someone gets a backbone and says that enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!