BigGameHoundsmen.com

John.,
U are right on the money,
It takes them old drift`en coyote hounds to put the hurt on a cat on this dry land hunting.
They won,t ever let him catch his breath & then he will make a mistake.
Since bobcats have become more plentfull supply the last few years
Lots of guys have tried to hunt them,
The biggest reason they fail is they start with the wrong breed of dogs.
If they stay after it for a few years, they finally see the light & break down & get the right kind of dogs
& then have some sucess.
Maybe some of the running dogs don,t tree to good,
but they will catch many on the ground to make
up for the lost treeing.

C. John, your daddy and I need to talk someday. I have a feeling we think alot alike in certain areas.

Oh ya, tell him next time he wants to say something on here to call me. I wont paraphrase him, I'll quote him cause I aint got no manners. LOL!

Take care partner and tell your daddy that a young yote hunter says hello.

Dads dogboy wrote:Ms. Liz,

Thought David might need some support with his "Sweeping" Statement about UKC Coon Hounds not being able to consistantly catch Bobcat except in the Snow!

These type of Hounds are great for what they are bred to do. They are Trail Hounds and in the Country where that type of Hound is needed they are great. However for lots of the Country and in different conditions you do not need a Hound to tell you where a "Bobcat had been". You need a Hound to tell you where a "Bobcat is going".

In our Pack we have several Hounds that are always swinging out ahead of the Race, anticipating where the Cat may be going, cutting him off on the road running trips or heading him off when the ole Cat heads out across clearcut. Dad terms this as "taking the slack out".
Treebred Hounds are not bred to do this, the quarry they have been bred to pursue is more plodding and leaves more scent and generally does not "Run" as much as a Bobcat will.

Like David, my piece of the Bobcat knowledge pie is very very small, but over 57 years at the "School of Hard Knocks" Dad has earned a generous slice. What I have related is paraphrased from him (good manners won't let me make direct quotes)!


Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Mr Clay, Dang I laughed at the broom there.

Man, this post cleared up an awful lot of questions I have been afraid to ask you. I have been afraid to ask because I get tired of offending houndmen all the time. There are things I want to know but sometimes folks dont apreciate my doubts.

All this time I been wondering if you guys just have completely different bobcats than we do. I wondered that because I have never known any kind of hound except that they follow the scent of an animal an do not deviate from that. They are followers. I have never known a full bred hound that was not. Now all of a sudden you are saying you got HOUNDS THAT ARE NOT FOLLOWERS. Now, I wont lie to you, I got doubts that they are full hound. I know that will be offensive but all I got is that tiny sliver of pie. All I got is what I have seen and I have never seen a full hound that would do anything but follow and animal and keep pushing him out ahead.

But this breaking news from the South is amazing and wonderful to me. Because you see, I love hounds. People probably think I hate them. But I love them. It is just that I cant catch much with them because all they want to do is trail stuff and chase stuff. Many of them seriously just dont even kknow what to do if they happen to eventually bump into the game. There are great coon dogs that NEVER ONCE caught a racoon on the ground. How does that possibly happen? I can run down a racoon myself.

This is great and wonderful news. You have made my day. and maybe my decade.

Dan Edwards wrote:C. John, your daddy and I need to talk someday. .

Now, if that ever happens: please, please make sure there is a good recorder running that whole time. Because I would pay some hard earned cash for a copy of that. Video camera would not be a bad idea either. If you need some advanced orders to help pay for transportation down there, let us know. Now dont edit out the fist fight either!

David, it is not breakin news. I tried to tell you this over a year ago now but you dont listen well. There are hounds that "get ahead".

Wow, no need for you all to be defensive or think you are 'offending' 'hound' people (after all I'm pretty sure that those running dogs are still hounds, Ive seen a few of em run in my lifetime). I'm simply asking questions because I enjoy talking to other people about what did and didn't work for them and why they think that was. Fair enough?
"Ms. Liz"

Mr. Dan,

I have Broadcast Quality video equipment and will have it set up to record yalls visit.

Seriously come see us and visit, we can try to find a Cat and will give you a ring side seat at the "Opry".

Mr. David,

Swinging Hounds are important to have if you are going to catch a Cat here! Red Coated Foxhunters kill this type of Hound for not "Packing", but then their sport is to run the Game so the Horsemen and Women can lope along and jump a fence now and then and tour the countryside.

Having a Swinger is why Dad kept a July or two in his Pack up until the middle 70's as this characteristic is found more in the Wolf type Hound. Dad wants his Hounds to run their game to Catch it, not just aggravaite and worry it! When this trait was exposed in his breeding he worked to keep it there. We find that in a litter 30% or so of the pups will exhibit this trait.

As we have said before "Brains" is the #1 thing Dad breeds for. Rita our main Hound is a track runner until the Pack is well established with the Track, then you will see her on the Garmin start to look ahead of the Pack to one side or the other trying to find ole Shortail pulling one of his stunts. When She does she will tell the world and the Pack will break their necks harking to her. This type of Hound must be good enought to hold their game once they have found it, if they can't and drop it before the Pack can get there, this Hound has hurt instead of helping!

Took no Offense to your doubting, but will take offense if you don't come see us and broaden your education so your piece of th Pie can become a little larger!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Wolf hounds are beautiful thing. HAHA! Mr. C. John, you are makin my day sir.

Dan Edwards wrote:David, it is not breakin news. I tried to tell you this over a year ago now but you dont listen well. There are hounds that "get ahead".

Dan, it aint that I dont listen well. it's that I dont remember well. It's a good thing though at times. I never get bored. I do the same thing day after day after day, but I cant remember ever having done it befor. Each day is a new adventure.

I kind of remember getting excited about that conversation, but then I also remember a let down at some point. Help me out. Was it because those dogs cannot locate? Seems like you said they could not locate a coyote in a culvert let alone a cat in a tree.
And maybe that they will not bay even if they could locate a hidden cat?? Help me out. There was something said that made me think they would not work for bobcat.

I cant remember exactly, was it they are too hot nosed or???

Anyway, it is exciting to hear about those type hounds for the first time again. Especially to hear they are being used succesfully on bobcat. I have seen and used dogs with this trait but they were not full hound.

Liz ODell wrote:Wow, no need for you all to be defensive or think you are 'offending' 'hound' people (after all I'm pretty sure that those running dogs are still hounds, Ive seen a few of em run in my lifetime). I'm simply asking questions because I enjoy talking to other people about what did and didn't work for them and why they think that was. Fair enough?
"Ms. Liz"

Fair enough Liz. I know what did and did not work for me. When I get into the "why" is when I get into trouble. I think I know why, but these guys wont let my broom get by them. Not even sideways, just a narrow little generalization ha ha.

But I am a doubter when it comes to accepting things that seem contrary to what I have experienced. Problem with that is there is so little in this world I have actually experienced. I base my reality on that tiny sliver of pie I am familiar with.

It is amazing I could beleive in Jesus. I never seen him. I know some people say they have, but I got my doubts, cause I never have. Somehow though I do. If i was to get into why, that's where I get into trouble.

But I am a doubting Thomas and I will give you an example Liz: A woman bobcat hunter is out of the realm of my experience. I have never witnessed it, and cant even immagine it. If you were to tell me you are not a woman and Liz is just your initials for Larry Isaih Zmith then I would be going "see, I knew it!" And if you told me you was not really a bobcat hunter, it would sure make me feel a lot more comfortable. You are stretchin me, and I am not sure I like it! Good for you though. If you are really a woman and a bobcat hunter, that right there deserves a trophy in my book.

Keep the Faith

bigboarstopper wrote:On the left is the catahoula. He cam outa camp-a-while catahoulas. He won some bay events in california. Id sure like some more feed back.

Now see, when I hear about dogs that head off their game, I think wolf, cow dog, sheep dog. That is why bigboarstopper, I hope you try those dogs on bobcat.

that is also why it is hard for me to accept that a full hound would do that without someone having spilled a little hot sauce in the chicken broth at some point. Maybe even a hundred years ago? Ever see a July colored like either of those dogs pictured above???

Dads dogboy wrote:Took no Offense to your doubting, but will take offense if you don't come see us and broaden your education so your piece of th Pie can become a little larger!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Now that will be my next dream come true if I can ever make it happen.

David,

As to your dream coming true, Quoting a famous philosopher "Nothing to it but to do it".

Come soon Dad will not be around forever!

CJC

PS we keep the lid tightly screwed down on the "Hot Sauce" it has not spilled this or the last millinium!

Also as to the color of the above pictured Dogs, you might want to go to foxhoundspastandpresent.com and research the History of Fox Hounds. You might find that two Hounds imported in the early 19th century by the names of Mountain and Muse,(foundation Hounds for the July breed) were imported from Ireland and were the pretty Merle color shown above. Most Cur breeds had a large dose of Hound in them. It seems th Catahoula-Lepoard(sp) have come full circle back to being called Hounds.

Some running dogs bay OK in my opinion of a bay dog. Most do not.

I have yet to see one that was a great locater. The older dogs are way better at it but they still aint gonna be in the slam dunk competition.

When do I get my trophy?