BigGameHoundsmen.com

B&T man wrote:

B/T wrote:

rebel2 wrote:I am aware that chilcoin hillbilly killed a female.......................it killed his dog. I have the numbers for the cats killed in region four. Permit holders kill maybe 5% of tom, not females.oufitters killed 47% this year. locals killed the rest. over 100 cats killed there this year. It is wrong that any outfitter can bring in 6-8 cat hunters a year.They should be on a quota system that allows 2 cats per area.It also depends on the morales of the houndsmen and what hes gonns let die over his dogs, and lately there isnt very good morales around here.JMO.How can places like Alberta grow giant toms year after year????? Proper management. Plain and simple. we have a 35 female quota or somthing stupid like that, no tom quota.To me thats a reason to decimate the population, not control.JMO again. If 80 % of the houndsmen got on the no black dot dont shoot horse, the other 20% might open their eyes too. Yes I agree females need to be killed to balance the population. We have enough incidentals every year to make up for it and with guys like vince and nathan they will have them all taken care of in the next 4 years anyways......................

You didnt answer the question, since you cant hunt cougar kittens or any cougar in its company in B.C. what did the COs do when you reported these people shooting a female with kittens. Maybe the cats attacked his dogs and he killed them you seem to be allright with that.
Havent seen a harvest report for this year but since your not even sure what the quota is I will wait till I do to see if your numbers are accurate. Not sure where you come up with your 5% never seen them publish that before maybe its new for this year.

Sorry big guy. rebel2's numbers are pretty damn close. oh.. harvest report.. published.. where are u from? oh... and... pretty hard to sex a cat when it's eating one of your dogs. I am against shooting females but when it is on a dog..

Actually the cat in question was shot the day after it killed his dog and was in a tree.
I was questioning where he came up with 5%for permit killed cats, Ive never seen that published/posted on a harvest report before. Maybe you guys are just worried about the outfitters and others taking the cats away from your clients. Maybe TJ will get one next year.Its something like in the tod watterson post where he says if people quit taking out every tom,dick and harry to kill a cat that offers them a bag of dog food. Im not just concerned about the female harvest but the toms as well in certain areas,and the harvesting is quit often done by the same bunches of guys. Its all a big competition to beat the others out there or if we dont shoot it the outfitter will etc attitude.

It is somewhat sad to say that talking to a few Outfitters in both USA and Canada reguarding
booking a hunt some are stating that if it is an adult species male or female .and it gets treed your choice kill or NOT then your hunt is over

B/T wrote.Actually the cat in question was shot the day after it killed his dog and was in a tree.
I was questioning where he came up with 5%for permit killed cats, Ive never seen that published/posted on a harvest report before. Maybe you guys are just worried about the outfitters and others taking the cats away from your clients. Maybe TJ will get one next year.Its something like in the tod watterson post where he says if people quit taking out every tom,dick and harry to kill a cat that offers them a bag of dog food. Im not just concerned about the female harvest but the toms as well in certain areas,and the harvesting is quit often done by the same bunches of guys. Its all a big competition to beat the others out there or if we dont shoot it the outfitter will etc attitude.


Im aware of the situation and not once did i say that I agreed with it. What would you have done????? The 5% is a not a fact, its merely a guestimate, being involved in the harvest quota for 5 years now, you get to see who kills toms/female, which oufitters and which locals bring in permit holders. I personally know 3 permit holders from our area and one tom was killed. TJ wont kill a tom. Vanessa might. If its big. In 5 days we treed 7 cats and 1 bobcat, 2 100 lb toms and the rest females. Didnt see them toms on TV did you??? didnt think so. It all falls down to ethics and I have them so dont push my morales or ethics like its any of your business. In 12 years thats the first person Ive takin out to harvest a cat other then my own father and it took him 3 years before he killed a nice mature tom. the topic is females killers not what me or you are doing. If you havent killed a female then whats your deal.....................I havent!!!! IM trying to stop the slob hunters around here from doing it. Plain and simple, not a pissing match! I agree with you on the tom situation, i can name off ppl that kill imature toms every year but i wont. The only way to overcome this is to have a proper management system brought in. not just a 40 female quota in all region 4. it aint working, we will see that in a couple more years. Outfitters and permit holders have the right to bring ppl in to hunt, its what they do with them that matters.

Hey black eye, been a member of UHA for awhile. Even been to the last couple of banquets and dumped some money into the raffles. I appreciate what you guys have done.

1963,
Thanks for the support, stay on the director. If you are who I think you are you have seen your share of the fight as well.

LIONHOUND1963 wrote:If more deer hunters who own dogs and greedy guides ( I don't mean all guides) would get called out on this issue maybe we could slow it down.

Hey Lionhound1963, you mentioned greedy guides and then said "I don't mean all guides"... You must have a cousin that guides turkey hunts or something back in Nebraska so you just added that in case he stumbled across this... ??

Cuz I sure as hell know you ain't talking about any Utah hound Guides!

And I won't bother forcing your hand to name one here that ain't that way, because I know you can't do it.

But nice of you not to include ALL guides to protect that 2nd cousin of yours in the mid-west that guides a few turkey hunters every spring.

bency,I don't dought that you are a good guy at all.But the best way to detere a hunter from killing females would be to just not turn out on them or say ''no females''.I said this in an earlier post that'' i never thought we'ed run outta lions'' but look at us today .If you got a lot where your at be thankful,if you think you can manage the population in your area,maybe you can but when 1 female gets killed it seems like it's a green light for everybody else to do the same.When i first started hunting there was maybe 5 or 6 pretty good houndoggers around here and we had about 6 or 8 tags available each year.Probably 90% of the lions killed were toms.More guys got into it and the percentage went up on dead females .Our population is the shits and i don't see it coming back.I don't think the average deer hunter or anybody in our fish and game knew how many lions we used to have.If they got in trouble in the sheep they got killed.The ADC guys would come in and kill 10 or 15 every year but it wasn't till the houndsmen started killing them that the overall population went down.I'm still not sureour F AND G knows the numbers but i don't think their going to take the chance of letting them come back at all so it's up to us.I would hope most houndsmen are smarter than their dogs. If you've had hounds very long everybody has had their best broke dog get sucked intoa deer race at one time or another by a young excited pup or somebody else's'' broke '' dogs.Mine have started more than their share, but do you just let them keep running them? HELL NO! You try to run them with better company,not turn them out where they are as likely to get into trouble and try to give them better tracks. Tri_tronics and sticks follow.Since i ain't gonna drive around the state picking fights with every body that kills a female this is agood place to try to get some guys to see things from a different angle.Maybe your in a spot where you're the only guy running in a 50 mile radius and you can manage to kill a few females .Maybe there are so many lions you can't help but catch one every time you go out.I'd like to retire in my early 50's so i'm still a couple years out but if your in a area like that start watching for a place for sale and I'll be down in a couple years .All i want to do is chase,I'm past the killing stage so i ain't gonna hurt the population any.

Right you are Dawg.

A guy can point at the guides all they want but this guy is as guilty as most guides I have met, that is the hero of the day, the guy that takes all his family and friends up after a lion because he's just a good ol' boy. You know, the hero of the day. If people only took care of themselves and not everybody they know we'd have more lions.

Sackett wrote:

A guy can point at the guides all they want but this guy is as guilty as most guides I have met, that is the hero of the day, the guy that takes all his family and friends up after a lion because he's just a good ol' boy. You know, the hero of the day. If people only took care of themselves and not everybody they know we'd have more lions.

Thats a pretty loose comment. That would depend on if he was getting a lion for every person, and it would also depend on if he was getting big toms for every one of his guests. Maybe even good ol' boys understand you cant kill a bunch of females and expect next years hunting to be good.. Lets face it, its not the guys who go out for pleasure killing all the females, its the guys who are working on filling their client asap so they can fill their next clients tag.

Been lookin at this post for quite awhile , getting alot of good ideas and a few laughs as well.
We are all here because we love to run hounds...hunt lions and tell stories.

Here is my 2 bits worth
In Alberta outfitters are on an allocation system , we bash heads with the resident hounds guys no different than most places, it's impossiable to keep everyone happy.
Some times we can come to concences other times we just keep bashin heads.
I have 2 non-resident lion allocations that all, I can only take 2 clients not 3 or 4 to kill 2 lions.
I take out a few resident clients as well and when the quota is filled I quite lion hunting here and guide with other outfitters.

Lobby for a quota male/ with female sub quota and everyone get together to support it.
Outfitters take a percentage of the quota.
I am not sayin that is the answer, but I can see we have it a lot better here in Alberta with this system than what I am reading about most of the places where you fellas are lion huntin.

Don't beat me up to bad now for my opinion on the topic

I haven't read all 15 pages, quit back around 10 last time i logged on, but it's soundin like guides are getting all the blame now? Put up a poll and see how many guys here have dropped a female out, bet less than 10% of em are doin it for money

I manage my lions as well as possible.I sell tom only hunts but I usually kill one female a year with clients, these females will be harvested by a kid or a hunter that is not capable of getting around. Even then I usually wait to the end of the season and have a good idea which female to harvest. There is no other hunters in the area to compete with, in seven seasons living here I have seen one other guy who is an old timer here hunting cougar. And he has piss pour dogs so he is not much to worry about. The females I do take are ones that have taken up residence close to houses and may be a problem in the future. I don't have a problem with competion out this way and am glad I don't, but that also leaves me and me alone to hunt down tracks for the clients, but a problem I don't mind considering what everyone else goes through.

Brent ,sure there are some outfitters that get carried away with the female killing but the guys that arent outfitters, the regular houndsmen are just as guilty.Hell ,this is the second year you even had to be licensed in Utah. In 2000 when we went away from a draw and to a quota system we went from maybe 10 houndsmen in the valley i live in to probably 50 or 60 .All these young guys just wanted to fill some tags.Probably90% of them quit after a few years but there's still a few that kept in it.I guess they never learned how to turn one loose cause most still kill about everything they catch.No outfitter wants to have to tell anybody they sent a client home empty handed so they kill whatever they can catch as a general rule.Around here that means the first track they find cause ther ain't many tracks . Gotta keep their stats up.But the other houndsmen that got friends with tags that can hunt all winter ,cut a track then get somebody up to kill it are just as bad.When we got good conditions we got a lot of ''guides '' hunting for clients and friends .When the snow melts and guys gotta start hiking and hunting bare ground we never see a soul up the canyons .I sure hope global warming hurries up and gets here.

Thats a tough go Tod, I couldn't imagine that many hunters. I would say you definately have to pay attention to what is dying.