BigGameHoundsmen.com

ZeluvaRIP69er

I am not sure if you are comparing apples to oranges?

There is nothing wrong with training, and you are right, most of us have treed females with young. If you get a strike off the rig, roading, free casting while bear or lion hunting and can't find a track and end up treeing a female with cubs or kittens you can't do anything about it.

If you turn out on a female with small kittens or small cubs in the dirt or snow when you can plainly see what you are running there is something wrong. I am not talking about sub-Adult I am talking about babies. If a person wants to train on females, and subs in my opinion their is nothing wrong.

doogie said that the last time he checked it was not against the law to run a females with kittens that have spots in Montana and he is right whether or not it is ethical? That is up to the person with the hounds. The problem come when your dogs catch them on the ground an kill them, that is considered take and is unlawful.

There is nothing "evil" about being a houndsmen, but it's what you do when you are alone. Is it the same thing you do in the presence of others?

To preserve the sport of hound hunting for ever, ( if it is possible) we as houndsmen need to have integrity, honesty, and ethics.

sourdough

I get what you are saying.

And yes, if a baby lion got caught on the ground it would be most terrible... There IS a huge difference between house cats and mountain lions and bobcats... God made house cats for the hound doggers

The only time we ever treed baby bears too small so chase was when they was on the side of the road with their mom, the dogs rigged, she popped them up the tree and gtfo of there lol. We videod them from the road, it is cool hearing them growl, even cooler when we let the sow go back and we videod them climb down and walk off with her

I also think if you have the dogs that can, they can take most lions down and stretch them, I have only seen one lion, but my dad saw it happen a few times, not too much though.

Maybe we should tell all the high schools who use cougars as their mascot (*cough* Show Low AZ) that mountain lions don't have feet like wolves!!! Oh well, I never bought a wolf shaped cougar paw window sticker lol!

Very well said sourdough we are not talking about juvies here. We are talking about kittens, spotted kittens. And females. Yes even pregnant females because the stress from race will make the misscarry. If they are far enough along. The simple fact is there is not enough cats around to mess around with what produces they future.

when I find a track Im going to turn on it, cant train dogs hauling them around looking at tracks. You dont have to kill it when you catch it

Earlier this year we turned out on one that had 2 sub adults, I dont think that was unethical. That was in October and it was the first snow of the year. We dont cat hunt anytime but the winter though. The tracks were almost the size of their moms, a little smaller but we never caught, they were moving and covering some ground. I would never turn out on one that looked like it had little kittens with it.

fox hunter wrote:when I find a track Im going to turn on it, cant train dogs hauling them around looking at tracks. You dont have to kill it when you catch it

This is completely irrelivant to the topic, but after seeing sourdough name over and over I got a craving for sourdough bread. Went to the bakery today and they didn't have any. Guess I am going to have to bake some myself!

Thanks sourdough!! lol

I think fox hunter is feeling left out he wanted everyone to tell him he is a dumb a** also. This is why this thread keeps going because of people like you. Brindle saw first hand on a female with kittens being ran. I think that is the most rediculous thing around that's like trying to prove that you have the biggest balls kind of pointless. Fox hound hopefully you would be able to find a real race instead of a quick catch. I am sure your dogs would be better on the long going races but than again your wife says you are a short race kind of guy.

I dont know what kind of dogs this Fox Hunter fellow is used to hunting with but I can tell you the dogs I and many others have hunted with would stretch a small cat pretty damn quick. You dont have to kill everything you catch but I haven't seen a a dog yet that you could whisper in his ear and not tell him to stretch game.
This is about ethics and its damn sad that people have to have these things explainded to them. A 10 Year old kid Knows better.

Some people just dont get it. Read the title of this thread and you will see perfect examples of it in some of these guys posts.

If legal in your state I say do what ever you feel is ok . Listening to all this whats ethical BS reminds of of time after time Ive heard the same BS spewed from other houndsman. They would proclaim to anyone who would listen that even though there were females on the quota that they would never kill one. Next thing you hear is that they killed a female. Always their excuse was ...well if I did'nt kill it ...so and so would have ...so its better that my dogs got to chew on it...Some guys complain and campained against the outfitters next thing you hear is they are outfitting. Same type of guys see you sitting on a lion track and jump roads to get ahead of you. Ya Ive heard all kinds of BS and seen it time after time same guys that bytch the loudest about ethics are usually the ones with the worst ethics.
On the otherside smaller -50lb lion kittens are really helpless when it comes to fending off hounds. It would be my guess that anyone who has followed hounds very much has seen the outcome of this all scattered all over the ground. Whether they turned loose on them or the dogs just stumbled in to them. Its something no one will tell you about but does happen from time tio time. Also most of the adult female are either pregnant or have kittens at all times. A lone female lion track sure doesnt mean she does'nt have kittens. She could have her kittens stashed so she could hunt. Just for myself I wouldnt turn dogs loose on what i considered kittens. Juveniles is a whole different thing for me. They equal good training.. jmo dgarrett

I'm fairly new to this sport,but I,d like to say one thing,hunting has been passed down from generation to generation and like myself I take my youngster with me,what example are you setting for our future hunters.Is this what we are teaching our kids!I sure hope not!Lets try to keep this sport around instead of ruining it for others!!!!Because all it takes is a few bad apples....

Brindle wrote:What do you do after you catch the female? you probably go back and show all your buddy how good you are and look i can even catch a female wow and I am so good it even had kittens. sweet dude. like i said before hang it up bud. This is our future were talking about your the one that will run and when its gone oh well but us that sand up for it care.

So Brindle , are you saying that females are easier to catch than Toms ?

Smiley, with kittens of course it is easy. The do the same as bears and push the kittens up a tree as soon as they are jumped.

You can't control what other hunters do, only what you do. Yes, there are those that complain about people killing females, only to kill one themselves. Yes, there are those who complain about guides, only to jump into guiding themselves. All I know, is that the lion hunting where I live is not what it was 20 years ago. I hear guys bitch about burning tank after tank of gas and haulin dogs for days trying to find a track. All I have to say is keep running those kittens (legal or not), I'm sure it will only improve the lion population in your area. And while the dogs are busy stretching your trophy, throw a few beer cans out the window just for the hell of it...