BigGameHoundsmen.com

I dont care who you are or what you have. 100 percent trash broke my A...

99% but nothing is 100%. Dogs are like people, even the best are apt to make a mistake even when they know better.
Derek

I ran dogs for years with some very good houndsmen that caught a lot of game every year. But I watched all kinds of problems they had with thier dogs. The same problems that most houndsmen still have today. I watched what they did to "Fix" the problem but nothing ever seemed to work every time. When I moved away from them and started running by myself, I started thinking of different ways to correct the problems I was having which were the same every other houndsman was having. I started coming up with some different ideas. Some of them have worked very well, others not so well. The ones that worked, I've been trying to share. But changing the way houndsman house thier dogs and train thier dogs is hard to change.
If you are using the same training techniques that have been used for the past 100 years, then I would say you will never have a 100% broke dog. Why is it that houndsmen keep using the same techniques that haven't worked before but continue doing so. And every book keeps touting the same techniques....Typically the use of shock collars. Well, they are not a cure all. And they are NOT fixing the problem. Shock collars have thier place but most of the time they are trying to fix the result of the problem and not the root of the problem. For example, barking dogs, use a bark collar. Is a bark collar fixing the problem?? NO! The problem is that your dog is bored stiff sitting in a 6x10 kennel day after day. Or your neighbors cat is sitting on your fence. Fix the problem, not the result! Sore feet, use some foot remedy or cream. That's not fixing the problem! Its fixing the result. The problem is your dogs are not getting enough conditioning for thier feet. I don't have any foot problems of any kind and I run in the rockiest steepest country in North America. I fixed the cause of the problem by keeping my dogs active every day in dirt and rocks.

There are 100% broke dogs out there but they are not being tought by the same methods that haven't worked for the past 100 years.

Again, shock collars have thier place but they are not a cure all.

Where I live, I have deer and elk in my yard every week, all year long. That is a blessing for a houndsman. I've raised a handful of dogs with deer right in their pen with them. My dogs look at deer and elk like they are another dog, they could care less about them! This is fixing the problem, not the result. These dogs have never seen a shock collar and none of them have ever looked at a deer, elk or sheep when hunting. I don't ever run my dogs with a shock collar. Look at my pictures, you'll never see any of my dogs with a shock collar on.
I had a guy (coon hunter) out with me one day and was roading my dogs. There were 8-10 deer in the road ahead of us, I kept driving right through the deer and they all took off. My dogs didn't even look at them. I stopped several hundred yards past the deer and loaded up my dogs. The guys comment was " I would have bet the deed to my house your dogs were going to chase them."

Everyone, try and think of the real cause of the problem. I've talked about a couple common problems: barking and sore feet. Very easy fixes if you go after the problem and not the result. If your having problems maybe with health issues. Maybe its being caused by your dogs mental health, something never talked about with houndsmen. Call me soft hearted but I just can't see keeping a dog in a kennel every day of his life on cement. How can that possibly be good for him? It's not doing anything to help him. It is very convienent for you but thats where any good comes out of it.
Your dog probably isn't getting enough stimulation. That could lead to all kinds of health problems. Sitting in a small kennel every day without any stimulation from other dogs, no outside stimulation for days, weeks and sometimes months would make you go nuts wouldn't it? Dogs are not machines so they have to be taken care of all year long, not just a few months during hunting season.

So for those that say there is no such thing of a 100% broke dog, I will disagree with you. My dog Luke is going on 11 years old this year and he has never once in his life run any type of trash, ever. He was the first dog I started using some of these different techniques on. They work.

Please everyone, do not take anything I've said personally. It is NOT meant to hurt anyones feelings or upset anyone. It is meant to try to help everyone think outside the box and away from the typical training techniques that are not fixing the problem.

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100% broke wow!!! and to think my hounds are so damn trashy i had to convince my wife that elk races were next big thing and every real houndsmen knew that elk and deer can run alot faster then them fat old bears. thank goodness i had one determined enought he could usually get one caught up on a regular basis so she did not half to feel bad for me every time i went out and got skunked

I thought only preachers and parsons were not trashy until to my supprise I found even these upstanding folk can be trashy as hell and found in places you'd least expect them doing the outrageous !!Bless their merry souls.

Exposure is the key element to trying to achieve the highest degree of discipline.I know of guys taking their hounds to areas saturated with jackal , where virtually all forms of other game are non existent in order to get them running on jackal but also not to chase other game.Not even in theory does that make sense to me.

I believe all true hound breeds ( trail hounds ) are born with a natural desire to use their noses to locate and track down the source of whatever is leaving a scent trail that has lured their interest.This from a very young age for some ( most ) and at varying degrees of eagerness according to what the scent trail is.

It is up to the houndsman to narrow down the field as to what he would prefer his hound to focus on and to target and this will take you on to target specific training. Their are different ways of achieving this but none IN MOST CASES are going to produce 100% trash proof hounds without these hounds being exposed to all forms of non target species that occur in the areas you'll be hunting.

It is important for pups to get a good foundation with their handler and as they grow to be exposed to non target game on short walks in the woods while they still young and easier to get hold of.Purposefully walk them onto hares and deer so that they recognise them by sight and scent and in motion.A hound is not only triggered into action by scent but can be activated by a deer thats lying up that suddenly bolts out of cover from a short distance and the sound and sight of this can swing a high powered pup into action. A four month old pup getting these walks often is going to be easier to get under control than a 6 - 9 month old pup.Back this up with rewarding training on drag scents and cage if you can. In between let some of your veteterans in on the training exercises on naturally laid trails under controlled circumstances.

I would love to own a 100% trash broke hound sometime in my career , but I guess i'll have to work at it harder.

Roy Sparks.

I would call my first hound the closest thing to 100% broke. He was 10 when I got him. I hunted him till he was 14. A Burton Oney bred redtick. I didnt make him, bought him that way. He came from Oregon. They said he would "trash" everynow and then on a fox. I ran fox so to me that wasnt trash. Absolutely would not start a deer, possum, skunk, or coyote. He was a sure enough a check dog. He would tell on all the pups. Now I called him broke cause he would only run bear,coon,bobs,lion, and grey fox. The people I got him from said he would TRASH on grey fox. They couldnt get him completely broke off of them cause he liked them so much.

Yup , I've had a few of those in my time with hounds. You can tell when somethings the matter when you start loosing hearing on some of the veterans in the bunch. They'll go quiet when a riot starts - usually anyway. They normally will come back in from behind you and hang around there looking all shamefull then you know for sure the others are up to no good , then you can start pulling the reigns in on the guilty party by whatever your preffered method is.

If you out there often enough you can normally pick up the game just by listening to the way your hounds are giving tongue , frequency , pitch , which individualls are sounding off , these are normally always give aways.

I had a young Blue Tick once who was sly as they come. I watched him on a track from a high vantage point and he did not know about that. He was very busy with the tail going like Attila the Huns sword but not making a sound. Not long after he flushed a duiker and took off after it like a roping horse but not giving tongue at all. I gave him benefit of the doubt and proceeded to watch the game a little to see if he realised his mistake. Well the duiker outstripped him and got itself into a thicket and stayed put. The Blue had to start using his nose again once he lost sight and about 10 minutes later had that duiker flushed again, all the while he was totally quiet. I let him repeat this once more then called out his name. He stopped listened looked around a bit then went back to trailing. I called him again and he stopped and listened and I swore at him the way he understood and he dropped his tail but pig headedly slunk off in the direction of the duiker. He was a good 500 yards out and maybe he felt he was safe at that distance.He knew what he was doing was wrong but was testing my authority. Thats when the antenna was extended and I zapped him good and proper. He immediately let out a howl and came back on his trail a distance. He stopped and by now the pack was going high speed on a jackal he heard this and dashed of to join them , shortly he was in on the race yodeling like only a Blue dog can !!

It's all part of hunting with hounds.Make observations while you out there. Look, listen, ask and learn.None of us are perfect and neither are our hounds.

Roy Sparks.

It's easier to keep a shirt clean if you don't jump in the mud first.

I'd much rather have a "dumb" trashy than a "smart" one. It's a long tough process to break a "smart" dog that has gained an affinity for some sort of trash.

Some dogs just have a preference for what they want to run. It works a lot better if that preference is what you want to run, it's a lot tougher if it's not.

We had a dog that was as bent as they come. We were running coon one night and watching him trail out in a hayfield that butted up to a corn field. There were deer bedded in the field and they just watched the dog go by and he left them alone. We got up a little further and a nice buck stepped out of the corn. This was during the rut and he was PISSED this dog was boohooing around in his little love shack. He took off clear across the field and right at our dog, luckily the dog spotted him before he got to butt full of horns. Our dog took off and ran that deer for about 400 yards till he realized he was wrong. He slinked back and we scooped him up and tried another field. Now I can't really say the dog was 100% broke, but i'd sure take what he was any day.

Dean,
I'm poor and don't have enough space or money to build a dog pen. I don't want to work and would rather just hunt all the time. Any ideas how to fix my problem, I've been trying to find an answer for a long time.

Outstanding post Dean...and pics...

slowandeasy wrote:i try to learn more with my eyes and ears than my mouth, but i couldn't help myself. have seen some pretty amazing claims on here and truly enjoy the free entertainment. i personally have never owned a 100% broke hound, and believe those that have it's because a certain percent of the time don't have any idea what they are running. as for the puppy's not talking about the one's that have disposition's that you don't have to wear out a shock collar on. you know the ones i'm talking about.they come from generations that chase one type of critter and gosh darn it thats all their going to do. come on lets hear from ya. i know ya can't resist. but remember there are alot people out there that have worn a little leather off the tree, and worn out their share of boots in search a little humor. have fun should be intresting

Went to a night hunt one time thought that I had won dog realy hamering the tree when we got there way up in the top of the tree was this big eight pointer There was time for one more drop so we went down the road a bit and let them go well opened soon were treed again I second stike and tree not good enough to win on the way to the tree I could see that it was a big pine and thought if the points are circle I win about fifty feet from the tree I could see they would not be on the 1st limb sat a big ten point after the hunt I asked the winner about it and he said that his dog neaver ran any thing but a ten point or better now let me tell you that is a broke dog

I like the pics of the deer with the hounds, and it sounds like a pretty bullet proof theory, but has a few flaws for me. I raise my dogs right next to my horses. from day one they are always around them and don't pay any attention to them. I had a horse get away from me one day and take off running. without me on top to scold the dogs, they chased it for miles! it was not the horses scent that attracted the dogs, it was the fact that it was running from them. I don't have trash problems when my dogs are pre ocupied by a lion track in the snow, but when I'm grinding out a dry ground track for 6 hours and a herd takes off the motion gets my dogs attention and the trash race begins. I bet if a herd of deer ran past your hounds on a dry cast, they would tear after them so fast your head would spin mister 100%.

I asked dad this one time. He said there was only 1 dog he saw that was 100% trash broke.

But one mans definition of TRASH is anothers main game.

One day when old Sky was about 15 dad and I took him and some dogs roding... Wouldn't ya know that old bluetic got on a herd of deer and was gone! After that dogs seeing his share and more of lion and bear, he would still get stupid and chase deer.

Dad had to be home by a certain time back then, so it was up to me and mom to go find the old bastard, still chasing deer, at 1:00 in the morning.

I think pups need to have desire to chase anything and everything, it is up to you to show them what to chase and what not to. But don't be surprised if after 15 years of them doing it right, they get a wild hair and decide to make you really angry LOL

DerekE wrote:99% but nothing is 100%. Dogs are like people, even the best are apt to make a mistake even when they know better.
Derek

this is the truth. no one and nothing are infallible 100%. there are people and animals out there who it would take a long time to catch making a mistake though. here are my thoughts. some hounds prefer certain critters if this happens to be what you are hunting , your a step ahead. if you only hunt your hounds by dumping on tracks they tend to get into the mind set that if the boss dumps me close to a track that's what i am going to run. hounds that are free cast and worked hard and required to find the right type of track will get pretty straight if encouraged along those lines. a hound that has covered ten or fifteen miles of country is less likely to take a chance on running something he knows will only hurt. on the other hand i have seen hounds that would trash so hard and often on one species they were worthless unless that was what you wanted. those hounds are best taken out of the gene pool and if possible given to someone who hunts their game. it will probably be their once in a lifetime hound.

of course I am never 100% right either.