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dwalton wrote:One dog can catch a cat , 10 dogs can catch a cat. If you have 10 cat dogs working together, not barking off track and not over running a cat they can cat it faster than one dog. If you have 10 dogs that are not working together, that bark off track you will be lucky to cat a cat at all.

And that about explains my bias to large pack size. I probably have never owned more than two or three dogs at a time that were worth anything. Imperfections arise if you mix packs of dogs that aren't use to each other, so even when hunting with some very good cat hunters and mixing our packs the races were probably inflated to appear a lot harder than they actually should have been.

A lot of guys starting out pick up worthless dog after worthless dog and catch a whole lot of nothing. One good dog is more valuable to me than 10 dogs of a lesser caliber. And that one good dog will catch 100 times more cats. So for the new guys reading this, remember it is quality of dogs not quantity.

I could only tolerate 5 maybe 6 dogs at a time, with 2 or 3 of the dogs doing a majority of the work. The others were usually pups or young dogs.

I have never seen a bobcat bay up, they either climb or..............

JC, Just my take on things, not trying to start you up or anything.

Where I hunt cats dont bay, but a good pack of cat dogs might make it look like it did. If your hounds can put the heat on a cat and keep it on him, there really is no choice. the cat must tree or try a lose, if that lose dosent work than that same good pack of cat dogs are on him, the cat runs out of options all that pressure and the cat panics and must find a tree, if the cat isnt lucky enough to find a tree than he gets stretched. I dont think the cat ever intended to bay, it was just the only option the cat had left. The educated cats are mostly the one's caught on the ground or forced to bay because they have learned to get away by keeping on the ground having survived many times doing this it is more than likely where it will end on the ground. forced to bay. thankyou, John Warner. CJC. when you say turn to bay? do you mean a cat that turns to fight off the hounds or walk the hounds, before it has exhausted all other means of excape? or is it simular to what I discribed, the last desperate effort before being stretched? thanks again J.W.

CJC, Here goes what little I know! I can only speak on the tree end of the deal as cats in my area and for the most part of Montana dont bay up and any one saying they do on a consistant basis in this part of the country please invite me to see it. The whole part of the cat race that is the factor of if they tree right away or the race is on is the JUMP of the race if it is in a place where the dog or dogs can run heads up with no obsticals (rocks, cedar treed hill sides) the cat should not get away and be put right up. But when the jump takes place in these kind of areas there is not a dog alive that can put enough heat on a cat to push him right up. Dogs cant phsically manuver like a cat in these conditions. Once the cat gains a few minutes here and there it is up to the hunter to help his dogs anyway he can to help the dogs as I for the most part always keep a fresh dog in the box and once the cat has gained his ground I will try my best to get ahead of the race and through a fresh dog on the track this just puts the extra heat needed to put an end to the race. This is just my thoughts if I new the true answer I would have a cat at the end of every race and that SURE hasnt happened. Until we can get the dang bobcat to tell us we will never know . Andy

No disrespect Andy, but in my books if you have to dump in fresh dogs whether it be on a bobber, lion or bear the animal wins, and your dogs lose, period.
These guys that pickup dogs and dump fresh ones in need new dogs or just accept they got beat that day. With technology what it is today that is really not fair chase at all.
There is one thing that cats have in common, small heart and lungs. Fast dogs should always be able to catch a cat after a jump in most terrain. I truely believe that if you are having a lot of bayups your lucky as they sound fun. I know with my dogs and a lot of others the cat will get stretched

Interesting topic

Just to clarify my end of the topic. I obviously was not refering to a bay up in the terms of bear hunting. I just decided it was best to use those words rather than ones others have used for the reason of others that view this website and use it against us. On the other parts of the post I guess I would just have to see your dogs work in Eastern Oregon dewey because the little amount of cat hunting i've done and been around I really havnt seen one time where a "bay" could have been produced with different dogs. I would actually love to see your style of dogs work to better understand where you guys are coming from.

chilcotin hillbilly wrote:No disrespect Andy, but in my books if you have to dump in fresh dogs whether it be on a bobber, lion or bear the animal wins, and your dogs lose, period.
These guys that pickup dogs and dump fresh ones in need new dogs or just accept they got beat that day. With technology what it is today that is really not fair chase at all.

I guess I don't look at it this way. If it's within the law, it's still a win in my book. As long as I'm happy with my dog's performance, that is all that matters to me.

I like to watch good open mouth dogs work a cat. I want them to move a track and catch it. The bottom line is if we coon, cat or bear hunt is to tree game. What ever stile you use is up to you. No right or no wrong. Dewey

I am not saying either is better or worse, the bottom line is if you have to dump in more dogs at the end of the race to finish it you may have won, but your dogs got their a$$es handed to them. I call that getting beat when it happens to me. I take it in stride and try to figure out what could be better or what the dogs where lacking.
Some people say a caught bear or cat is one you shoot as it jumps the road. To each there own.

I agree with you chilcotin hillbilly. I hold my dogs to the same type of standards; I will never be content with the dogs I have and will always be striving to find and trainer better. Heck I dont even like to help my dogs out when they make a lose. I'm not saying I havn't because I have but I don't like to. I expect them to progessively get better and better and like to see them do it. I rather watch them struggle to figure out a lose than help out. Makes it easier to figure out with do is doing what. I feel that if your dumping new dogs in and constantly helping them out than you keeping your dogs from progressing and trying harder. They will learn that they dont have to push it that much more because in the end someone else will finish it for them. Creats half hearted dogs that don't truely exert themselves 110%. I realize with this mentality I will catch less game but sooner or later I will put together a pack that will be hell on cats or atleast I hope I will. I also agree with dewey..to each they're own. What ever style you perfer as long as your enjoying it and enjoying life.

I try my best to live by this saying that I came up with while in the woods one day...

•Striving to not be consumed by the desire to prioritize the completion ,but rather enjoying and idolizing the process and events that get me there!

What I mean by it is that enjoying and focusing on the little things that happen while you chasing a cat, stalking a muley or bugling a bull are more important than killing that animal. All of the little things that add up to kill are what are truely important and make the memories.
So as long as your having the time of your life , it doesnt matter how your hunting.

I think this really depends on where a guy hunts and what sorts of tracks he's putting on.

In our neck of the woods, you'd be scooping up dogs off the black top if you put them all out off the start. You'd most likely have dogs trailing out different ways with different tracks going who knows where. We usually put a couple and wait until it warms up to put more in. That way they hopefully get lined up on the same bear.

I''ll just keep plugging away with my sub-standard, half hearted dogs and loving it.

Nolte my post was refering to cat hunting. I live in Oregon so I obviously have pretty no experience in bear hunting. So thats totally a different story.

Great info keeps coming out fellows!

A word of caution though, lets not start deriding others for the style and manner in which they must use to terminally end a Bobcat Race!

If nothing else I have learned here, it is that different strategies’ are a must in different areas! There is no way that we could do what Warner5 told so well in his relating how he ended the Spoiled Cat’s existence in one of the earlier posts. So the fact that Twist “Sometimes” will release a fresh Hound onto a Track is just him adjusting to times and circumstances that he faces!

Another thing is that the original question, which was probably not stated clearly enough was, how do you get a Bobcat Race successfully ended. I was trying to be politically correct when I used the term “Bayed” rather than “Stretched”. Most have come up with the same answer that Dad has….”PRESSURE”!

As we have stated previously there are two types of pressure where we hunt that work;

Strategic - this to us is that steady movement of the Track always advancing it, warming it up, never letting a lose bring the Hounds backwards (unless the Cat has doubled back, which they darn sure can & do regularly) holding that pressure on the Cat until it makes a mistake and is forced to do something other than that which he wants to do. If a Cat is allowed to “Trot” in front of the Hounds, no matter if you are hunting One or a Pack, the chances of success are slim to none!

Tactical – to us this is the PRESSURE that you MUST put on the Cat after the jump to make it do the things that will end the Race. This is when for us that “Well Oiled Machine” comes into play. As the Cat reaches into its Bag of tricks, squatting, ducking, going into the water, up the leaning trees, using all of its wits (Dad says God gave a Bobcat Brains instead of Lungs) to cause that check that will give it time to start TROTTING again and going where it wants to…..for us Tactical Pressure is as critical as getting that Strike Bark! With us, if a Cat is Stuck Hot and this Tactical Pressure is applied Hard and Early the Cats tend to climb the majority of the time….very few of these Races last over 10 to 15 minutes(Paintballing the Cat out sometimes will yield a very good, hour long Race from this same Cat). Now if the Cat is struck cold and much trailing and Strategic Pressure is needed to jump the Cat, then the Tactical Pressure when applied tends to “Break” the Cat down, it gets “Addled” and forgets that it can climb, go in a hole, etc. This will more often than not yield a “Bay”!

Others here have expressed this far more eloquently than I can and this is just what we experience where and how we Hunt!

C. John Clay
Dads dogboy

Nolte, how many dogs are you talkin? I think that would make the difference foresure. My pack is small and unless injured or a heat cycle is happening they always hunt together and always honor the other dogs. Therefore tend to stay on the same track.

One thing that I have noticed this past cat season is the walker pup I have runs a track much like my cur dogs. Head up and moving out. This ability has made the difference this season on lynx. Time and time again the Garmin is showing treed on Cookie and Zoey and the other two are still 1/2 mile out( on bear, lion and lynx). But both Rudy and Ruby are hard tree dogs and locate well. I think hunting with Cookie and Burger for 2 seasons madeZoey this way .
The competativeness in a dog speeds up a race, striving to be in the lead, first to the tree, and the first inline even when roading I think is a good trait in a dog when looking for a small cat dog.

As for the statement fast dogs should always be able to catch a jumped cat in most terrian is correct but as I said (rocks, cedar treed hill sides) the cat gets his head start and like CJC said once a cat starts to trot you are in for a long day of disapointment if you arent willing to help your dog or dogs. I dont care what anyone says a dog can not phsically manuver in them areas like a cat no matter what anyone wants to think. I am one that wants to put a tree at the end of every chase if at all possible, call it unfair, cheating thats fine for me that is my way. If I have to put a fresh dog on the track that is what I will do. Maybe I need new hounds but I seem to catch or help them catch thier share of game. I hunt snow so that is maybe not fair as the dogs didnt find the track I did. How many snow hunters have found a track and went down the road to find where it is fresher is that unfair or had to help the hound on a lost track and put them back on it or should we just have caught the dogs and went home for the day as that can be called unfair. I am one that likes to get a tree as fast as possible if it is me helping the dogs I call that team work and a good team usually does well. There has been many a races at the end of the day I felt like I have earned the tree just as much as the dogs to me this is cat hunting. After a cat has been treed and released or just flat out run the dogs they get a heck of alot harder to tree and thier are very few dogs that can put an end to these races in a timely matter without help on a consistant basis. This is the way I make it work for me so right or wrong its my way. Andy

radar wrote:Hopefuly the sound of a roaring hound I know it would make me climb and not put up a fight But really I think its something moma teaches them when there young, flite is safer than fight.Whether it be a rock pile,hollow, or to climb a tree.One wrong move and it can result in death even if it dosn't happend during the fight.If injured and can't hunt or drink properly.JMO

Fresh dog'in on small game thats funny!
Dogs that go silent until the cats been jumped what do you do set in the truck and watch the gps screen until it gets going?It be prety frustrating to track a dog like that.
Turn a dog lose wait to hours just to hear a 20 min site race to a tree. Don't we love to hear the whole race track,trail and catch?