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Any dog that trees game is a top dog, regardless of what it does or doesn't do.
I have to agree with you guys. Fearless dogs don't last long. I've had my share and lost them. They are probably one out of forty dogs with endless grit, but your lucky if they last a long time.

Buckles wrote:Any dog that trees game is a top dog, regardless of what it does or doesn't do.
I have to agree with you guys. Fearless dogs don't last long. I've had my share and lost them. They are probably one out of forty dogs with endless grit, but your lucky if they last a long time.

Wow . I could not disagree more . there are plenty of average dogs that tree lots of game . it takes a special dog to be a top dog . one that makes other dogs look silly in certain aspects of chasing game. and if you have never seen a dog like this , one that just stood out I would venture to say you have never seen a phenomenal dog . There is always and average with highs and lows and if one hunts much with many different dogs it is apparent and easy to see.

Buckles out of the hundreds of dogs I have had or seen I have never seen a suicidal dog yes I have seen dogs get busted up and seen some very gritty dogs but never seen one that would go toe to toe with any bear yes seen some do it on some bear but not one that was a bad mo foe running dogs down and such . I know there are dogs out there that do it but in 17 years of running dogs have never seen a suicidal dog .Just because a dog gets killed does not mean it was suicidal there are to many factors and in most cases have nothing to do with that dog being to gritty.

Smiley check out the Old movie "The yearling" That yellow Cur dog had some crazy grit

I know this is a conversation on grit and it is a very important in putting bear in trees, but from my experience in WI it is probably #3 on the list. Granted a certain amount is needed in many chases but other traits have more bearing on success.

Depending on the type of tracks you try, track starting and speed are #1 & #2. They just flip flop depeding on the track. If you got those two things, you will probably put up 85% of the bear in WI in the summer training season. You need dogs that can gain ground the longer the race goes. If they lose ground and you don't have anything fresh to put in you are NOT going to see a bear in the tree. Just my experience.

In the other 15%, you better have something that will stick. If not, it's over. Slow tough dogs are only going to be effective in kill season, but then they are nice to have. I've got a couple dogs that lack grit, but run other stuff well so I just leave them hope in kill season. Maybe bring one with a day in case we get a little runner.

I get a kick out reading stuff on here where it seems there are these vast amounts of dogs that have all the tools all the time. You can't hardly find a dog that can't do it all. Lines and breeds that just kick ass and take names. Meanwhile, I and a bunch of guys I know and hunt with are sorting through these same breeds and lines and only finding dogs here or there that are anything special.

Carry on fellas, good discussion.

Smily, I've only owned one dog that was suicidal and that was a walker/kur. If I wasn't there to kill the bear, that dog would have been dead a long time ago.
I'm refering to either a bear fight on the ground or trying to get a wounded bear out of the woods. I hated like hell to turn my dogs on a wounded bear, but I couldn't stand to see the bear suffer either. I 've seen a few sucidal dogs with other owners, but they never lasted long. I believe that any of us that have hunted hounds have had our share of different dogs. Some just are more agressive than others, and we get to choose the dogs we are comfortable hunting with. In the 30 years I've hunted, I have only had 4 dogs which I considered top notch bear catchers, even though the others would tree game. My idea of a top notch dog is one that only runs what you want it to, can put pressure on the bear, work a track properly with his nose in the air, fast on his feet, sounding off on the trail to let you know what he is doing, trees steady and stays for the kill. I do think like a lot of the other guys, and beleive that a good dog puts the pressure on but knows when to back off.

Nolte I agree with you VERY few dogs have all the tools and most bears will be caught without much grit . Fast bay dogs that do not bite a bear will tree most bears .
For me and what I see here where i hunt and I have only hunted a few states the 2 thing I see lacking in abundance has been above average nose and above average grit with an emphasis on mental toughness . Speed has not been something i have seen lacking in to many packs .

Dogs with average speed and maybe just a touch above average ( trail ) speed with great endurance in my opinion will not catch less bears than those fast dogs . but put some mentally tough dogs that will bite and hit a bears back side and that is the difference changer.
Slow dogs are just that but often look pretty at the tree , Evan if they did not contribute a dang thing . I usually only run 2-3 dogs and can say that my chances for treeing or catching bears are the same if I run alone or with someone. ( side note I could use more nose to start those old rough tracks ) .

Also Nolte and others hunting in roaded areas and areas that bear will just run cause they know someone is waiting around the corner with fresh dogs or a gun is a much different scenario than many other places especially out west . There is no one set of traits ( unless there is a perfect dog and there has never been one ) that will be the number one situation in all areas that we all run .

How about some of you guys with GRITTY top notch beardogs post some videos of your dogs in action on a bayed bear.I would like to see 2 or 3 top bear dogs work a mean bear.

I have only owned one in 17 years of running dogs so if you are smart assing about me I am not tooting my own horn . or puffing my own chest I have owned some very good dogs some of which most would say top but to me they were just good dogs. Doing what they are supposed to do . b
But you guys that think a top dog is in every ones back yard or you always have 6 or 7 in your box just keep smoking what you are smoking your living a pipe dream . Fact is most dogs are just average and our ego's get in the way of truly saying what your dogs truly are.
Just because you turn a dog loose and it goes and trees game does not mean it is a top dog . Just means it is doing what it is supposed to be doing.Makes it a good reliable dog.