BigGameHoundsmen.com

It passed here too. The only dissenter was a guy who wanted more liberal seasons. Josh horrocks of twodog hunting represented sfw nicely but encouraging them to kill more lions on sheep units. He is a fellow houndsman. Of course he has half of the south slope vernal unit posted. So he benefits from more liberal seasons. It's a shame the division uses "science" to say we need to kill more lions but ignore science by changing management plans after only one year. This whole rac meeting is a joke.




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What we need is a lawyer. they are going to kill the lions to a point where there will be none. it only opens the doors for antis to come in for all types of hunting and say "ya you use wildlife managment as a excuse to hunt, yet your lions are nearly wiped out your deer herds are terrible and your elk are on the way." These peole dont care about wildlife they care about the $$

A couple of things have become obvious through this process. First it does not matter how many of us go to the RAC meetings and voice our opinion, the process is just to try and stroke you they will do what the DWR wants. Second I would have hoped that the RAC members would have better a little better sense. RAC members I hope you read this, you should be proud of yourselves. WOW

I was at the richfield meeting i was the only one that voiced my opposition to the lion plan and was the only one on the rac to vote against . Very frustrating this is the very reason i got on the rac i thought i could make a difference there were no houndsmen who even voiced there opinion for or against ! I was told i needed to make a public appoligy to SFW for saying they wanted to get rid of all of the lions in the state.The houndsmen are going to have to manage this themselves people without dogs cant kill females or males i gess the key word here is houndsmen are you a houndmen or just a killer fo hire !!!!

Guys your right the rac process is a clown show!!!
About 5 years @ the central rac they passed that the udwr should cut the lion permits by half state wide!!!!

When those reccomendations hit the wildlife board they chewed the chairmens butt and told them to send serious reccomendations or dont come back!!!!

RAC meetings are a waste of uneducated clowns!!!!!

Now that you figured that out, bet you dont know who has the majority members on the wildlife board??????

Or better question, guess who was named as the newest member of the wildlife board this spring???
Ill give you a hint he's the president of the SFW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And worse calls himself a houndsmen???????

They still think lions kill all the deer!!!!!

Yeah, well, we can't really blame the RAC board when 3 houndsmen show up and one wants to kill more lions. It was me and one other guy, I'm not sure what his name was and he left early. I actually got pissed and was yelling some because the biologist presenting the plan was blatently ignoring the facts when presenting the proposal. He even went as far as to explain that "sheep are valuable". LOL. I tried explaining to him that having lions to go hunt with my children for the next 10 years are far more valuable to me than sheep that will take me 30 years to draw a tag for. Unless i win the the lotto. I felt better after he said "I understand". I was going to go for an evening hunt last night and now I wish did. How can the wildlife board mandate to the division that they "make a link between Mt lion depredation and mule deer population"? It seems illegal. In fact, I am trying to ascertain from the divisions mission statement how they can artificially keep numbers for one species low, just to artificially raise anothers. Why don't they invest more in habitat so we all can benefit?

BK
Your right you might have shaved a day or two off your life gettin pissed @ the meeting and huntin adds days.

I'v seen enough rac meetings that have been a waste of time, to be truthful it was the wildlife board that ordered the biologist to make and or come up with this revision.

I have seen 10 houndsmen stand up @ the board and have plenty of opinion and concerns for the lion population. Nothing changed, so you tell me what we need to do to get some CHANGE??

The public process is a waste of time with these people!!!

Bluedogman, thank you for voting against this plan.

As for the other RAC members who voted for this I can and do blame you, any time you are part of a process where you can make a change at your level and you fail to do so you are part of the problem. knowone twisted your arms to vote for this and you should clearly see the problems with this plan.

Just like black eye said "The public process is a waste of time with these people!!!"

The sad truth is that every RAC member in every region could have voted against this and it still would have passed. The advisory councils only function is to gather feedback from the regions they represent and send their recomendations to the wildlife board. This gives all of us a false sence that we actually have some input in the process. Decisions like this have already been made before the recomendations have ever been published. RAC meetings are a waste of your time. I work with several past and current members for our region and over time they too have become disgruntled with the process.

Bluedogman said it best. If we want to do something about the #'s of females and imature cats taken, then we need to quit killing them. But be it money or bragging rights I do not see it happening any time soon. Fact is the DWR is not doing this to us, we are doing it to ourselves.....

Wow!!! I would personly thank all the houndsmen that showed up to the central rac meeting!!! Way to go we really filled the room!!!! Do nothing, say nothing, don't show up, DON'T expect nothing!!!! Better go buy some vaseline cause these is guna hurt the sfw/dwr big johnsons going to leave a mark!!!! SO BEND OVER!!!!!!! LMAO

What I liked most was when the rac members never even refered to any opinions of the houndsmen that did show up. Or anybodys opinion they all have thier own adjenda!!!

Even the "mighty" Wade Lemon stood up and opposed the divisions plan.

Again my question is "if the rac and wildlife board refuse to consider anybodys views, whats the point????

I'm still waiting to hear a good idea to help us.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meeting ... packet.pdf The information below is directly from the DWR website.

After reviewing thr RAC agenda from the website i found some things that were interesting.

TO: Regional Wildlife Advisory Councils
FROM: Kevin D. Bunnell
Wildlife Chief
SUBJECT: Cougar Plan Amendments and 2011‐2013 Recommendations
Early this spring the Wildlife Board requested that the Division think of ways to create a closer link
between the management of cougars and deer, their primary prey. As a result the Division isrecommending the following amendments to the Cougar Management Plan:
 Create 8 cougar management areas (CMAs) (see map below) that are centered around the units
where the Division is currently tracking adult mule deer survival with radio collars
o Adult survival is the best data to determine if cougar predation is a limiting factor to the
growth of a deer herd.
o 1 CMA will be created around 3 units that primarily support bighorn sheep
 Apply cougar harvest quotas at the CMA level with a female sub‐quota
o All split or harvest objective units within a CMA will stay open to cougar harvest until
the harvest quota or the female sub‐qouta has been met for the CMA
o Female sub‐quotas will be set at 25%‐30% of the CMA quota for standard areas and
40%‐50% for CMAs that are under predator management plans
o The trigger for considering predator management for a CMA will be adult deer survival
below 85%o Units with bighorn sheep will have a minimum harvest quota
 These units will not close with the CMA unless the minimum harvest has been
met
 The harvest management criteria in the Cougar Management Plan will not be changed
o Proportion of adult females in the harvest 17%‐20% (within a CMA over 3 years) or;
o Proportion of adult females in the harvest > 25% for CMAs under predator management
 If the RACs and Wildlife Board accept the recommended amendments to the Cougar
Management Plan the Division also proposes the following harvest recommendations for the
2011‐12 and 2012‐13 cougar seasons:



If the RACs and Wildlife Board decide not to accept the amendments to the Cougar
Management Plan the harvest recommendations would revert back to the 3‐year
recommendations that were passed in 2010

I believe we are going about this the wrong way. It would appear to me that we should be contacting the Wildlife Board and NOT the RAC.

The RAC meetings are a waste of time! It seems that they are put in place to make us feel like we make a difference. The problem is that these management plans are voted in before the RAC meetings and then the public process starts. The houndsmen have been fighting against all of the management plans for years!!!! Still it goes to the favor of the wildlife board and then changed the year after. I don't think we are going about this the wrong way there has been alot of support more would always be great! We just need to step it up acouple of notches and lay the law down in a different way!!!! RAC meetings are just not the answer!!! We are the citizens paying taxes to these crazy plans why is it not our decision of what the plan shall be!!!

I'm a little torn. The bear RAC meeting 2 years ago helped, in my opinion. But we had standing room only in that one. This one had 3 guys and one supported the new proposals and was trying to get them to change a split unit into a HO. We need a state wide organization for this political BS. It would be nice to raise enough money to hire a lobbyist for the legislature. That's where the real business gets done. Even if it just means getting the right people on the wildlife board.

It would appear to me that we need to be talking and complaining to the Wildlife Board, that is where it starts then goes back down hill to the RAC. Maybe if the wildife board became tired of hearing from us they would help us. Perhaps they could ask Mr. Bunnell to put together a plan that would keep some Lions alive for the future.