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Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:00 pm
by BearHunter'90
In my opinion a hound earns the right to stay at my house, I usally keep 5 hounds that I run, and all of them are still there because they earned the right to be out there. and when a hound doesnt do what they are train to do or straight out just a poor dog, they go away, I have high expectations on my dogs, I get out of bed and run through the woods, and except them to do the same and earn there place at a barrel.
But I also beleive when they are doing what is expected, they deserve to be treated as a pet, Every single dog me and me girlfriend hunt, go's out hiking with us. They also gets dog treats and sometimes table scraps. In the summer they go to the swimming hole with me.
Im not saying spoil them like some ol paris hilton wannabe mutt, but they do deserce the respect that we think we deserve. When hunt 9 time outta 10 the dog is putting thier life on the line to impress there owner, and they deseve to be treated better than just a tool to hunt with.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:18 pm
by LACOON69
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:51 pm
by craigs
plott/walker wrote:All i know is for hundreds of years, these "old timers" dogs were bred for one reason, to catch game, nothing else. its only been more resent that people are wanting thier hounds to be pets also, we all know that some dogs can live in your house, and go catch game. but any one can see that a dog use to this living conditions isnt going to be up for 10 degree weather, possibly staying out in the woods for a few nights. the dog should live in the same conditions hes hunting, giving him exposer to conditions you expect him to perform in. during the off season, they should be conditioned, and handled. not sitting on my lap waiting for table scraps.affection also plays a role in all of this, but thats another discussion....
this is an opinon, we all do things differently with our dogs, but i believe thats hounds as pets has something to do with our ratio of good/bad hounds of today.
look at how the, ridgebacks,wolf hound,otter hound, or alot of beagles are now, they are bred for nothing more then the "look".
alot of them dont have the hunting instinct any more. us as houndsmen should be trying to keep our hounds "HOUNDS."
I cant think of any lines/strains from the past or present, that have been developed with hounds sitting in the house, or that play fetch and role over. hmmmmmmm i wonder why????
Brian
To add to this statement,
It is the competitions that has ruined the hunting hound! Why do I say this, because the dog being bred for the competitions hunts by himself, will not honor another dog, can't work a track, has the need to tree so bred into him that he can't function normally. I won't even go into the show dogs that are bred just to look the look.
I hunt bluetick, I have both types, the competition type and the gascon type they are both Bluetick but hunt totally different from each other. One type is more enjoyable to hunt than the other and to just be around them is a pleasure.
The old timers bred smart well rounded hounds that could work out the problems that arose, hunted for the whole day, had to be physically able to hunt hard terrain.
Today we breed dogs that hunt for 2 hours, scream through the timber, and only hit the hot tracks, to tree fast by them selves so the can get the high score.
bad breeding practices have hurt us more than treating your hound as a "PET", they are social animals they need interaction with either a pack leader or master. After reading Meet Mr. Grizzly and Slash Ranch Hounds I kind of think there hounds were treated pretty good.
Just my $.02
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:12 pm
by black and tans boy
My opinions is that their a tool, and were born to hunt, not saying that i treat them different from my house dogs as a matter of fact i treat my hounds better than pretty much about anything around my house but for the most part their in the kennel unless were hunting, or if its like 0 degrees
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 pm
by Spokerider
craigs wrote:plott/walker wrote:All i know is for hundreds of years, these "old timers" dogs were bred for one reason, to catch game, nothing else. its only been more resent that people are wanting thier hounds to be pets also, we all know that some dogs can live in your house, and go catch game. but any one can see that a dog use to this living conditions isnt going to be up for 10 degree weather, possibly staying out in the woods for a few nights. the dog should live in the same conditions hes hunting, giving him exposer to conditions you expect him to perform in. during the off season, they should be conditioned, and handled. not sitting on my lap waiting for table scraps.affection also plays a role in all of this, but thats another discussion....
this is an opinon, we all do things differently with our dogs, but i believe thats hounds as pets has something to do with our ratio of good/bad hounds of today.
look at how the, ridgebacks,wolf hound,otter hound, or alot of beagles are now, they are bred for nothing more then the "look".
alot of them dont have the hunting instinct any more. us as houndsmen should be trying to keep our hounds "HOUNDS."
I cant think of any lines/strains from the past or present, that have been developed with hounds sitting in the house, or that play fetch and role over. hmmmmmmm i wonder why????
Brian
To add to this statement,
It is the competitions that has ruined the hunting hound! Why do I say this, because the dog being bred for the competitions hunts by himself, will not honor another dog, can't work a track, has the need to tree so bred into him that he can't function normally. I won't even go into the show dogs that are bred just to look the look.
I hunt bluetick, I have both types, the competition type and the gascon type they are both Bluetick but hunt totally different from each other. One type is more enjoyable to hunt than the other and to just be around them is a pleasure.
The old timers bred smart well rounded hounds that could work out the problems that arose, hunted for the whole day, had to be physically able to hunt hard terrain.
Today we breed dogs that hunt for 2 hours, scream through the timber, and only hit the hot tracks, to tree fast by them selves so the can get the high score.
bad breeding practices have hurt us more than treating your hound as a "PET", they are social animals they need interaction with either a pack leader or master. After reading Meet Mr. Grizzly and Slash Ranch Hounds I kind of think there hounds were treated pretty good.
Just my $.02
I agree with the concept that *competition hunting* and breeding for such, has hurt the big game hunting lines more than anything else. Is it not these competition lines that have watered down the BG lines over the years, by average joes looking to add a few pups to their packs? Me thinks keeping the BG lines free from unwanted competition genetics, is and will be the greatest dog-related challenge to BG houndsmen in the years to come.
Yes, owning hounds and how we fit them into our lives is as varied as the folks who own them. We are all different. Some of us make our living hunting hounds, some try to compliment their income with just breeding hounds, and then there are the recreational hunters hunting for sport. We all fit in somewhere.........breeder, hardcore, recreational, or somewhere inbetween. I would place myself in the recreational / somewhere inbetween catagory. I hunt the dogs that I have, and I have carefully selected the dogs that I have. They do have their faults, but they are what I have. I don't take huge risks with them that some hardcore hunters would, as I have no interest with starting my pack from scratch every 18 months. I value the time and $$ that I have invested in them, and so I hunt them accordingly. Further, I have no interest in breeding my hounds. With honest, knowledgeable top breeders breeding the genetics / traits I like, the leg work has been done for me.
Yes, my hounds fit more into the *pet* category than they do hunting tool category. In my mind, this is based more on factors such as reluctance to hunt them near a busy hwy, where the possibility if injury or death is high, regardless of the fresh lion track, reluctance to release on a track when it is almost certain that I cannot get them back before dark, like into a roadless chit hole at 3pm, etc, etc, more than the fact that they sleep indoors and are well socialized. Mine are indoors not because I enjoy slobber on the windows, or smelling dog farts at mealtime, no, these are the trade-offs I have decided to live with. Mine are indoors because my neighbors complain about the barking.......and I don't enjoy visits from the bylaw officers regarding the barking when I'm at work, and two, I have never had a break in from theiving bastards, like all of my surrounding neighbors have experinced. It works for me.
Yes, the lack of cold acclimatization can be an issue for my indoor hounds when it's really cold out, however, being on the coast it never really gets very cold out here for long, maybe minus 5 C or so for a few days. My hunting, biking, hiking is almost always in the rain during winter and spring here, and my pets have no problem running 26kms in the pouring rain beside my mnt bike, or on a 10km bush-bash hike. They have excellent conditioning. A dog will NEVER sit on a chain in my yard when not out hunting.
Time to wash the slobber off the windows..........
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:40 pm
by LACOON69
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:31 pm
by MThound
Some people may have hounds strictly for a pet, while others may use them to hunt with on occasion. I don’t know where there is an issue with keeping a hound for a house dog, good for those people. I have great respect for my hounds. I have worked hard at finding good lines, breeding good genetics, and training the dogs to the best of their ability. Hard work pays off at times and I am proud of the way my hounds work. I may be just another recreational hunter, but love the sport enough to spend well over 150+ days a year in the woods with my dogs. My dogs may not have the game under them that many others do, but we give it our best shot. I know once my hounds are turned loose they have a very high chance of catching it. Dedicated I am, but so are my dogs. I treat them with the upmost respect and they acknowledge me for it. If hunting conditions are harsh, I will refrain from turning out. If I can’t handle below zero weather, how can I expect them to? If there is a good chance of losing the dogs overnight in wolf country, I will hold back. I have too much time, money, and most importantly respect invested with my hounds. They are not tied onto chains, they are not in small concrete floored kennels, and they do not sit for months on end. They share a very large enclosure outside, have their own houses, and are able to live the life of a dog. I know the importance of being acclimatized to the weather, and therefore my dogs remain outside all of the time. They are spoiled by having treats when available, run free in the yard many times, and are pet any chance I can. They are not dispensable to me, and I will always treat my hounds as part of the “family”. It is sad to see many hounds that are treated as nothing more than a tool. These hunters are missing out on having a great friend and companion with them in the woods.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:06 pm
by buzz
WOW Intresting thread, I agree and disagree with alot said. First of all any houndsmen with any experience should be smart enough to research a line of dogs before he buys a pup.
As far as indoor or outdoor living goes I do not think that Matters to much. If the dog has the drive to hunt it is going to hunt no matter where he sleeps as long as it it dry, some kind of bedding,and out of the wind. The only problem I see in living in the house is when you are hunting in the extreme cold weather. When we go on our elk hunt at 7500 feet the mules that my brother brings along often stand there and shiver like crazy because they are not haired up good for the winter yet. Mine do alot better because I live in alot colder climate and mine are good and haired up already. So my point is that a dog that lives in a 65 to 70 degree house is not going to hold up as good as a dog that lives in a kennel or on a chain.
I have hunted my dogs in 30 below zero weather guiding in Idaho and never had a problem. It was so cold that your eyelashes would freeze together from the moiture of your breath when riding the snowmobiles and the pickup doors would freeze shut with the heater cranked. My dogs are used to those extreme conditions so I was able to hunt still. In that kind of weather We do not go back to camp without all of the dogs no matter what. I do not think that a dog that lays next to the woodstove every evening would fair out to well on a hunt like that.
Just because some of us do not bring our hounds into the house does not mean that we do not care for them as much as those that do. To each his own.
Just my two cents
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:38 am
by Rossco
Pretty much every one has their hounds the way they enjoy it. My dogs are a hunting tool and my best friends. They belong outside because the house is for people and if they have to stay out over night when hunting it is easier on them if they are aclimated to the weather. They are kept in running shape year around because it is easier on them to run game that way. You will never see me saying I had to spend the first month of bear season getting my dogs in shape. When my dogs are out of the kennel they are going to be hunting, its their natural insting so im not gonna put them in a situation where i have to cosntantly call them back to me and stop them from hunting. I pet my dogs and love on them all the time, they can play in their yard and just be dogs. But the main fact is they are a hunting tool and any time they leave my place they better be hunting. They understand that play time is for at home and there is no hunting allowed at home.
Ross
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:47 am
by George Streepy
I find myself somewhere in the middle of this argument. Before I had kids I would let pups live in the house for a few months. They would become house trained and learn basic commands like sit and stay. If a nice well behaved dog didn't hunt, they were fixed and they were sold as a pet. I never kept the money, I gave it to my sister who spent the time to find the dogs a home. It was very easy on me and my sister enjoyed it. A couple of people that got dogs still send updates, and are now hound hunting supporters. I don't see a point in shooting a dog because it doesn't hunt. There are plenty of people out there that will enjoy the dogs. One I sent away ended up getting a young guy interested in field trials, nothing wrong with that. Most of the dogs that didn't turn out to be what I wanted in a cat dog turned out to be bang up coon dogs, another easy way to send a dog away without a bullet. The dogs that lacked the desire to hunt became pets, mean or ill were disposed of.
There is absolutely no reasonable argument that anything I did with those dogs had a negative effect on hound hunting or the quality of hounds. The only dogs that left my house intact were either puppies that went to hunters or good cat dogs. If someone decided to breed them later it was what they decided was best.
Letting the pups live in the house was a great way to build confidence and teach obedience. Teaching obedience would benefit me the rest of the dogs life. By four or five months old the dogs would move out to the kennel. Where I lived before was all hardwood floors. Every couple months was bath day, which was followed by hang out on the couch and watch movies day. The dogs loved it, and never created a problem in the house. Once the dogs were house trained at a young age, it stuck the rest of their lives.
As far as loving the dogs like a pet, I can't help it. They are hunting dogs that get a few perks, but I get attached to the ones I keep. My son went out to the kennel to feed the dogs tonight, he found one of my 12 year old dogs dead in his house. There wasn't a dry eye around my place tonight.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:46 pm
by brian j cerelli
I am just as guilty as the next guy for giving away or selling a dog that might not meet my expectations, but will work for some one else as far as hunting ability, like having a dog not fast enough or gritty enough on bear, but could catch thier own coon, or cold trail a cat. to me thats ok, theres some guys that dont even tolerate that much from a dog. but thats where i draw the line, if the dog isnt wanting to hunt at all, and not showing what he naturaly should do, i dont understand why it needs to become a house pet. i know alot of hounds are just a pain in the ass and end up at the pound or for free on craigslist because of this.
Atleast some guys cut the dog before giving a cull away, i just belive that most people dont do this with a cull, if the dogs not working out, most dont want to spend more money and time into a dog and get it cut, it just goes down the road to the next guy....maybe the new owner just wants to try to make the dog a pet or think they can fix the dog and make it hunt, all i am saying is theres lots of junk going around.
Brian
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:20 pm
by George Streepy
One of the motivating factors for me is public perception. I don't see the harm in someone owning a hound for a pet. Can anyone tell me why that is bad?
The people I know that wanted a hound as a pet are pro-hunting. The down fall to hounds are their stink. They can be well mannered and typically have a very good temperament. I know when it comes to public perception, finding a wayward hound a nice home is better than posting on a public forum that all of them need a bullet.
We don't need to cater to these dogs or treat them like people, but with little effort something else can be done that looks better for us. If for some reason you all decide that the effort is to much or having more pro-hunters is a bad thing, then do what you want. I think it is something better not screamed from the mountain tops.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:50 pm
by brian j cerelli
like i just said, if your cutting the dog and sending him down the road, thats your methed of culling, atleast no more s*** dogs can come from it, i am talking about the majority that are not cut, and passed off to the next guy, they may or may not be bred on purpose, but i dont think thats the correct way to get out of the dog.
If it aint broke dont fix it, the old ways the old times have done things seem to work pretty good, and i guess i just fall into that thought process. i have had a litter of pups that didnt all make it into hunters hands(not by choice). after 2 call back wanting to return loud barking, pups, and seeing another one at the shelter a few months later, i have a different view on them working out as your inside house dog, i think whats out in my kennel isnt multi purposed enough to be good in the house, nor do i expect it from them.
everytime i get asked about the dogs and dog box, i make sure to educate people about the sport, but i dont try to sugar coat everything either, some hounds may work out as pets, but some dont, you may not have kitty cat around to long with a hound, some will sleep in bed with your pet cat or coon. just a complete 180 from what they are bred to be.
thats the last i will post on this topic, dont want to start arguments between houndsmen, we already are divided enough.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:46 pm
by dswish
I currently have 5 dogs 2 of which are house/yard dogs, 1 of my house dogs is a cut redtick hound the other being a cut red heeler. The redtick is a h@!! of a better house dog than my heeler. my heeler is a hyper bounce off the wall idiot and my hound is a laid back lay on the couch potatoe. Having him as a house pet wasn't my idea it was my wifes but I don't have a problem with that either. My other 3 hounds live on the farm in pens and all get treats and get to run and play when not hunting. I don't see a problem in having your hunting partners as house pets at all. I also agree that if the dog isn't making the cut as your rigging,hard driving, belly up tree dog. Then have them cut or fixed and try to place them in a good home.
Re: hounds as pets
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:10 pm
by robbyson99
everything you have said george streepy is right on. its the way ive always dealt with my hounds and the way i will continue to treat my hounds. its my nature to become attatched. ive had a few hounds that couldnt hunt a hot dog down 20 feet in front of em. to me, thats no reason to shoot a dog just because it cant hunt. theres always someone out there to take a dog. fix it and give it to a friend or a neighbor. i know alot of old school houndsmen that "took care" of there own hounds and im not gonna trash talk there ways. its just not mine. my hounds are my pets. there animals/dogs. guess im not a real houndsmen!!!!
