When to seperate a pup from the pack ?

[dwalton]

A lot of good post from guys that have been there and done that. What I read is there are several ways one can go and they all work. The key is being the hunter that sees what a young dog needs at the right time. I think the out standing young dogs will be out in front doing it from a early age while others need more time. All can benefit from being on a track by themselves or at times with a old dog. Watch the pup it will tell you what it needs. Dewey

[Lil Joes BigGame hounds]

Why wouldn't you just keep changing up the order that you put your dogs in. If you keep changing it would stop the idea of having a lead dog you would just have a solid pack. Unless of course one dog naturally drifts ahead of the others. But you would still have young dogs starting tracks and not trashing cause the other dogs would help keep them straight. I try to put dogs out in a different order every time i start a track and it really seems to build confidence.

[twist]

Marshall, what I am saying to (unreal) is that he stated his pup has made several races and has treed on the last 2. To me this dog is no where near ready to single out on its own if he has the option to keep running it with dogs that are catching game why not do that until it gets more races and trees under it belt.. If this pup had been to 20 or so trees and had been treeing well for more than 2 trees I would say go for it but this young pup if put on a track by it self could have a far better chance of learning to run off game and also if it did put the cat up and was not able to locate and tree it would have the chance of learning to leave a tree and look for some other type of game to run so then you have a start of a trashy dog that wont hold tree and for what to say I wanted to see what it could do by its self as a pup. Unreal just how old is this pup you are talking of? Again just my opinion. Andy

[cobalt]

Tim, I don't know what you are alluding to when you put questions in "laymans terms". I assume you are directing that at me because my simple mind didn't quite interpret the complexity of your queries. I think if you read my posts thoroughly, I have answered your question, maybe not in detail, but I will not write a book on this thread or any other. I am not beyond reproach, for sure, and adjust my training methods to fit the dog. There are no bullet proof dogs or training methods. If I count on a dog getting lucky enough to find itself split from the pack and treed or it cheating its way to the far front and making the catch, I would be ok with that, but I consider that a fluke and it is not something I want my dogs to learn to do consistantly. I want the dog to be out there on ITS OWN track and have the chance to finish the job honestly and I want to let the dog do it a few times in a short amount of time (a season), maybe not on consecutive hunts, but spaced out amongst hunts using the whole or part of the pack so that I can gauge the dog on his merits alone, without variables (other dogs) and to get the dog thinking it can do it alone. In a previous thread I said this should be done at least 5% of the time.
Here is a quote from a previous post.

All training methods are subject to dispute and all methods can produce an undesired effect.
When a dog is young, my intentions are to guide him/her on a pathway to make the right decisions so even if they are outmached in the field by my dogs or others, they end up doing the right thing just like most would expect out of any seasoned dog.

I think the difference between us is that you are looking to work with the dogs you think are far superior pack dogs and I'm trying to make a pack of solid, well rounded, independent dogs. But you also work with a different type of dog than I.
Gotta go. Cassie is whelping out the next litter of track straddling, slobber mouth tree dogs as I write this.

[jake]

Top dogs think and do for themselves and are leaders much more then followers.

[twist]

Jake, that is sure true alot of houndsmen can make dogs that catch cats but a TRUE BOBCAT DOG is born, you show them game and they just get better with or without company. Andy

[Unreal_tk]

This pup has made 7 or 8 races this season, treed really well on 1, ok on two. He is about 9 months roughly. But he showed me what made me want to separate him out on HOT tracks, nothing else alone.

[Warner5]

Unreal-tk, I do not intend to offend any one with what I've got to say. The advice you asked for was answered very well by knowledgeable houndsmen. But, no one know's your dogs as good as you, all we can do is generalize. Your new to hunting and doing very well, it's your time to learn for yourself. Putting limits on yourself and your dogs is not going to get you to where you want to be. I dont want to discourage asking good honest questions. Just keep teaching those dogs, and before you know it those dogs will be teaching you. My 2cents. John.

[Unreal_tk]

Thanks John, you are correct. My question was answered a long time ago, basicly you put it in a nutshell.

[Tim Pittman]

Cobalt--sent you a pm,you've misunderstood my whole thing here.