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JTG wrote:Hi Dan.

Sure, There is not many tree's in that area, so if the hounds are not pouring on the pressure on the lion, he will just fast walk, kind of like bears do in the Northwest. The will also climb a small tree and rest, jump and fast walk again. What I have found by going through a bunch of hounds is if they will booger bark a bobcat, they will not pounce on a Lion enough, for the lion to stay right there. When I went with other bobcat hunters and some lion hunters, I noticed the same thing and most had some kind of reason why the lion got away.

Thanks partner. That makes a lot of sense actually. I assume after so long some of them type of dogs just tend to play out when the going get real real tough. After all them lions live in that stuff all day every day.

Dan Edwards wrote:

twist wrote:Nope. If a dog can catch bobcats in desert conditions he can sure catch a lion in the same conditions but just because a dog that can catch lions in those condition doesn't meen it can do so on bobcat. That goes for any region a lot of difference in a lion dog and a bobcat dog. There are always exceptions in every case though. Andy

That don't make any sense at all. So if my dogs can catch a coyote then they can catch a lion? Hell boys I got lion dogs. Come and get 'em!

What makes no sense. For the most part a good bobcat dog makes catching a lion look pretty easy. A lion dog is not for the most part a great bobcat dog! One that has run both bobcat and lion successfuly would no what I am talking about. Wouldnt doubt a coyote dog could put a lion up but very well doubt bobcat without a lot of luck. Andy

I'm not sure how cyotes got compared to bobcat, But do know that a lion is much easier to catch than a bobcat atleast with any dog I've owned and in any area I've hunted that's just my personal experience it may very in diffrent areas as some beleive in this thread I do not know I have not hunted everywere I know a good number of Bobcat hunters that refer to a lion track as a puppy race that has to say something. I've seen dogs that make quick work of a lion but are an average bobcat dog at very best and at the same time I've never seen a good bobcat dog that couldn't trail up a lion in style have also seen dogs that Excel at both. Take the dog and try it that's the only way to know for sure. just my 2 cents.

twist wrote:

Dan Edwards wrote:

twist wrote:Nope. If a dog can catch bobcats in desert conditions he can sure catch a lion in the same conditions but just because a dog that can catch lions in those condition doesn't meen it can do so on bobcat. That goes for any region a lot of difference in a lion dog and a bobcat dog. There are always exceptions in every case though. Andy

That don't make any sense at all. So if my dogs can catch a coyote then they can catch a lion? Hell boys I got lion dogs. Come and get 'em!

What makes no sense. For the most part a good bobcat dog makes catching a lion look pretty easy. A lion dog is not for the most part a great bobcat dog! One that has run both bobcat and lion successfuly would no what I am talking about. Wouldnt doubt a coyote dog could put a lion up but very well doubt bobcat without a lot of luck. Andy

It seems that there are a few on here that have ran both successfully that disagree with you. I have not so I shouldn't even have got involved but I also disagree with what you are saying. I don't even pretend to know what I'm talking about but I don't see how you can say what you are saying. So would them good bobcat dogs catch coyotes easily as well here where I live? And how about going out and treeing coons here in Central Illinois? I also need to add that I doubt very highly that my coyote dogs could put up a lion in the southwest. I also know for a fact they are not running and treeing coon here where I live either.

Dan, I think those comments made by Twist makes perfect sense. Although there are exceptions to every rule. I think you would be surprised what a good coyote dog can be capable of on other game. In the area I run, it would be tough to start a dog on bobcats alone (due to low pop.). The exceptional coyote dogs do a fine job on bobcats. A good percentage of coyotes here run more like a bobcat than a typical coyote. Could be because they know they can't staightline outrun a wuff...lol

Dan I have to agree with mondo muttrunner. Has been my experience most good coon dogs can catch a lion here, if they can cold trail enough to get one jumped. However, some bobcat are a different story. Never hunted other areas so can/t say what it takes to tree lion other places. If a dog can catch coyote in this country, most can catch bobcat, if they will locate & tree. You might find those coyote dogs hunted in flat open country would be hard pressed to catch a coyote here? Then maybe, dogs ran in this area might stink in your area? Al

Anyone that has walked behind a true bobcat dog would understand my thoughts. Yes there are always exceptions. Lions for the MOST PART IN MOST AREAS it doesn't take much of a dog to catch them. Andy

I guess thats why bare ground lion hounds down here are a dime a dozen and sale so cheap lol

Cowboyvon wrote:I guess thats why bare ground lion hounds down here are a dime a dozen and sale so cheap lol

That why I said for most part in most areas there are always exceptions.Andy

From my experience hunting AZ, UT, MT, NM, WY, and CO I have found hunting in wet snow is the absolute easiest. Both lion and bobcat get treed fast. In the crusted over dry snow with temps below 20F, I can walk out the track faster than the dogs can trail until the midday sun hits it and they explode. In the brushy chaparral country the dogs can run lion much better than bobcat. In the barren desert country bobcat races for me are usually jump ups and end quickly. In that same desert you can spend all day on a lion track and never tree. From what I've seen bobcats are harder to catch regardless of area on a regular basis. Conditions really seem to play more of a role than anything else. I run a mixed pack and have cold nosed southwest hounds, area specific bred hounds, and the bobcat hounds of the northwest, sometimes a superstar in one area is mediocre in another.

Ultimately if you want to hunt Bobcats buy a bobcat dog if you want to hunt lions buy a lion dog and if possible buy it from your local area or something very similar.

Right on! Google earth Marfa Texas and head towards Big Ben and you will see what I am talking about. There is many good places anywhere in that area. The thorns and some plants sting and it hurts for awhile, I have seen many hounds that just could not take the pain and shut down. It's hot most of the time and it's all around tough country.

Quote- "In the barren desert country bobcat races for me are usually jump ups and end quickly. In that same desert you can spend all day on a lion track and never tree. From what I've seen bobcats are harder to catch regardless of area on a regular basis. Conditions really seem to play more of a role than anything else. dog and if possible buy it from your local area or something very similar.

twist wrote:Anyone that has walked behind a true bobcat dog would understand my thoughts. Yes there are always exceptions. Lions for the MOST PART IN MOST AREAS it doesn't take much of a dog to catch them. Andy

Ignorance: lack of knowledge or experience

When you use the word "......catch......." it suggests everything from the strike to tree. we would agree that it may not take much at times (not all times) to shove them up a tree after the jump. This is a topic where one needs to really "split hairs" and compare apples to apples not apples to applesauce.

What is harder to trail an 8 hour old track across a flat for one mile that is devoid of any vegetation at 10 am @ 75 degrees? I would say the bobcat. In fact we would say a coon would be harder to trail than both the bobcat or the lion, simply because they are flat footed thin skinned and as far as we know do not have scent glands in their feet.

Which is harder to catch under the same scenario? Well walking at 8 MPH for 8 hrs the lion could have traveled hypothetically 64 miles. Not likely but very possible to be 5 - 10 miles away/ahead and going to be 90 degrees at 4pm.. If you stopped in the middle of that flat and took a look around it is likely that bobcat is somewhere within site of where you are standing. This is our opinion from hunting at one time or another anything that will climb a tree all over the west.

Houndwomen, reread my post (for the most part in most areas) that leaves areas open like you are talking of also said there are (exceptions.) Does every one just read what they want to read so one can jump on the fight wagon! Andy

One more thing and then we are out permanently.

Folks dry ground lion hunting is the most challenging endeavor one can pursue with trailing hounds! With out a doubt....like we said previously we have hunted all over and and all tree game. It is something that is never mastered because there are so many variables involved. We only hunt lions now, simply because it is the most challenging to us.

There are damn good lion hunters with damn good hounds in the southwest that may only catch 8 - 10 lions a year. We have caught as many as 32 in a year and as few as 7. The year we caught 7 was a successful year for us because they were all caught honest. With that I mean not off of kills and not from tracks that we found. All but one were long trails (4 hrs up to 8 hrs) before the tree) that the dogs struck while free cast. 7 treed lions and probably trailed 20 to 25. We saw some of the most memorable dog work that year. If we don't trail a lion at least 3 - 4 hrs before catching it it is just not satisfying to us at this point of our hunting career.

Good luck to everyone with their hounds and hunting. Sorry to get my feathers ruffled.

Hear is just a question for hunting conditions like houndwomen is talking of if one was to turn out on equal amounts of bobcat and lion which would you catch more of at end of season in equal conditions and area? Andy