BigGameHoundsmen.com

I just don't get it. The guy went hunting and didn't catch a lion. I for one believe him. There is also a good chance that he won't catch one next time. That I will probably believe as well. As far as passing up small tracks to catch a big one, you can't fault a guy for that. Well, actually you guys could fault LT for just about anything. I would like to see how this saga ends, so don't run him off. There is a method to his madness, but for the life of me I can't see it yet.

Personally I think liontracker should be banned from this site and all others that pertain to hunting lions. He should be banned because most everyone on this here site calls BS on the majority of his posts. For those reasons he should be banned.

But on the other hand he's probably forgotten more about catching long tails than all you disbelievers put together anyhow...

1.9 miles with the naked eye is something I'll have to find a way to test. Not many places in Pennsy that you can go and see 1.9 miles away. enjoyed the story and good luck with your quest. IT should make for some good reading. Paul Conway

So it's a fact in my head that you, LT, are indeed full of $#!%. You did say one thing that might be somewhat kinda almost beleivable, if i didn't already know you were a liar. And that would be:

In the past 14 days, I have passed on 31 tracks while I wait for these 2 big toms to get into a safely runnable position, which is AWAY from the REZ and not TOWARDS it.

I think that if i were to drive all day for 14 days in the snow, i would have a good chance of cutting 31 tracks in 14 days. This is only because i live in a state where it is highly illegal to kill lions, and the population is out of control. I find it very hard to believe that while hunting a specific area for these two cats you speak of, you cut 31 tracks. the only way i see it is maybe you count each step as a track....I think you should run right into the REZ, it would make for a good "story" that your so famous for telling. you could tell about how you joined the tribe and hunted buffalo with them then got caught fu@#!%& there horses so they kicked you out....take it from here liontracker, or should i say lyingtracker

NOTHING IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN SINCERE IGNORANCE/mleonard

...and your's is showing badly, along with your ineptness in the woods. How's that?

Passing on 31 lion tracks in 14 days. . . . . waiting for one of the two "La Plata County Goliaths". . . . . . . I guess I can't find any fault in that, rather just a difference of purpose. I'd rather have my dogs getting some exercise and experience (heaven knows they'll take all they can get) on most any runnable track as opposed to sitting at home waiting for "the one". Then again, I'm not encumbered by cameramen or magazine editors, I like the game, the puzzle, and at the end of the day - the dogs, too much to pass that many runnable tracks. After all, the dogs don't care how big the track is, only that it smells like a lion.

Here's an interesting equation if you want to play mental olympics; The lion season in Colorado is 128 days long (Nov. 22-March 31). If I passed 31 lion tracks in 14 days and to me those conditions are exceptional and unrealistic, that would equate to 283.428 for the season. Even if I'm not out hunting, those lions are still moving and making a runnable track, the opportunity is there is it not? Now, agreeing to the exceptional and unrealistic part, let's scale that back by 1/3 to make it a little more easy to swallow. . . . .

That takes us to 20 runnable tracks in a 14 day period, or extended to 182.857 runnable tracks in said 128 day season. Now, myself, having average, regular dogs that make a bunch of mistakes, aren't in very good shape, and tend to like deer and moose quite a bit - I will state to anyone that in good conditions, on an overnight track, that I feel I'm capable of catching about 40% of the time. Sometimes more/sometimes less, but I'll admit to a 40% (not even a passing grade) average for this apprentice to the game.

At a 40% success rate on 182 runnable lion tracks - I could be taking pictures of 72 lions per season ? ? ? I might just look into renting a room at the Strater next year; what's their policy on dogs in the room?

[quote="jed"]Passing on 31 lion tracks in 14 days. . . . . waiting for one of the two "La Plata County Goliaths". . . . . . . I guess I can't find any fault in that, rather just a difference of purpose. I'd rather have my dogs getting some exercise and experience (heaven knows they'll take all they can get) on most any runnable track as opposed to sitting at home waiting for "the one". Then again, I'm not encumbered by cameramen or magazine editors, I like the game, the puzzle, and at the end of the day - the dogs, too much to pass that many runnable tracks. After all, the dogs don't care how big the track is, only that it smells like a lion.

Here's an interesting equation if you want to play mental olympics; The lion season in Colorado is 128 days long (Nov. 22-March 31). If I passed 31 lion tracks in 14 days and to me those conditions are exceptional and unrealistic, that would equate to 283.428 for the season. Even if I'm not out hunting, those lions are still moving and making a runnable track, the opportunity is there is it not? Now, agreeing to the exceptional and unrealistic part, let's scale that back by 1/3 to make it a little more easy to swallow. . . . .

That takes us to 20 runnable tracks in a 14 day period, or extended to 182.857 runnable tracks in said 128 day season. Now, myself, having average, regular dogs that make a bunch of mistakes, aren't in very good shape, and tend to like deer and moose quite a bit - I will state to anyone that in good conditions, on an overnight track, that I feel I'm capable of catching about 40% of the time. Sometimes more/sometimes less, but I'll admit to a 40% (not even a passing grade) average for this apprentice to the game.

At a 40% success rate on 182 runnable lion tracks - I could be taking pictures of 72 lions per season ? ? ? I might just look into renting a room at the Strater next year; what's their policy on dogs in the room? [/quote

Being as were getting into all these numbers this is pretty interesting, a guy would tend to think if you were importing/breeding/raising/and PROMOTING the SH*T OUT OF A LINE of brand new foriegn dogs you might consider running some of those supposed tracks and putting your money where your mouth is with some PROOF of DOGS DOING WORK......till then I guess will keep reading fairy tale hunting stories, dont get me wrong there good stories....but nothing more.

It sure doesn't make any sense to me how a guy will post a great big "story" with almost every single last detail included, but cant include a picture of a LION IN A TREE WITH SOME DOGS UNDER IT???

Anybody know where I can download some free statistical apps for my laptop?? It's plain to see that I've been woefully negligent in not taking full advantage of applied mathematics with my dogs. Quantum physics, astronomy, and mechanical engineering is something all my dogs know, but without statistics, how can one analyze all the collected data??

Once again, as I examine my methodology as a hound dogger, I find myself lacking. I suppose that is another reason why I'm stuck at being only the second best hound dogger in the state of Utah.

Kevin
If we had mathmatical statistics built into our hunting.....it would be so sad we wouldn't leave the house. Kinda like Dawg does....see I think he's ahead of us and already did some math and figured A+ / divided by number of days hunting divided by number of tracks alone because in Utah any track IS a runnable track and x that by fuel consumption.....beer....groceries.....yup we'd give er up fer sure as the facts would be more than we could bare. So please for my sake do not post any mathmatical figures into this. "Dawg has it figured out.....he leaves the office when a FRESH track is found ....dumps his dogs....takes a photo or two, and he is automatically the number 2 houndsman in Utah. #1 lives in the basin."

You can't decide how a guy should hunt his dogs. I passed up 14 bobcat tracks on morning in Dec. Not all would have ended in treed, or even jumped cats, but I am certain most if not all would have had wolves listening to my dogs trail. Just because you would put your dogs on a track doesn't mean it should be that way for everyone else. I used to tree a lion about 9 out of ten days hunted. I am not training pups now and with wolves the way they are, plus the fact that Iv'e gotten past the need to run a cat or two a day, my dogs log more box time. Call it cruel and unusual punishment, but that is how things have changed for me. It is surely different than it used to be, not wrong, just different. I will grind for three or four days now looking for Mr. Big and may only throw the dogs out one afternoon to stretch their legs on a cat track. There is something more rewarding for me to work on a certain big cat and finally get lucky and catch him as opposed to catching thirty cats a month. And by the way anyone with a car, some gas money and the winter off could tree 75 lions here with an average dog. Not all places are the same.

Yaak attack wrote:You can't decide how a guy should hunt his dogs. There is something more rewarding for me to work on a certain big cat and finally get lucky and catch him as opposed to catching thirty cats a month.

Yep, that is pretty much it right there. How many tracks would you critics pass up for a chance to run the biggest track that you have ever seen...knowing full well that it "could be" the new state record? I once set my sights on arrowing a 350 plus bull. I had to pass up 52 bulls at less than 30 yards to do so. In the end he scored 356 P&Y. Was it worth it? Hell yeh, I can look up at his horns everyday and the memory of how I did it will last a lifetime. It is my best elk hunting memory of alltime. These lions are no different, except they require far more time.

As for the pics - well I still do not feel comfortable with posting yet, inlight of the threats that I have recieved to myself, my dogs and my property. That is a huge can of rotten worms right there.

See ya...

Well, for one I would turn out even if the Giant Tom was heading towards the Rez,(unless I was already on the border). You dont know how far the cat has traveled since he left those tracks could be 200 yards or less. Could be more. In my experience Toms arent any harder to catch than females, sometimes they are hard, sometimes not. Maybe if you turned out on one of the other tracks you would cross that big tom where he didnt cross the road. I could see why you would pass on tracks looking for a certain tom, but who knows if that Tom will ever be back. Maybe he is already living on the rez, Maybe he is down in Mexico, there is no way to know. Plus, giant feet dont mean giant head or even giant body, yes they are an indicator, but not a guarantee. Plus you are always giving people sh** about sitting in the truck, sounds like that is all youve been doing if your driving around passing on tracks everyday. Just my .02 cents

There, is no truck access where I hunt since Dec 1st. Still doing it the hard way - foot, horse or semi-easy snowmobile. I value my dogs more than that, the tracks I found are way too close.

I wouldn't want my dogs going to the rez, I don't want to ruin some one's dinner down there to get what was left of my dogs back . Wolve's in Montana and Rez's down south .

Great Post Jed really makes ya think. I'm sure lyingtracker is still trying to decipher that and crunch some more numbers.
Yaak ive hunted your country up north i grew up not to far from you, i am guessing with a name like yaak you live around Libby or Troy. I know a guy can catch a lot of lions up that way, I also lived in Colorado for almost 4 yr. and hunted there as well. I had a couple good seasons in CO but I could tree more lions in a good week in MT then i could in a month in CO sometimes two months. I never made it down to the Red Runner or Nike mom country, so i'm not sure what kind of country or conditions tracker is hunting. All this talk about snow and snomobile makes me wonder why tracker labels his pups as TRUE SOUTHWEST DRY GROUND LION PUPS. CO sure can have some shitty conditions but for most of the season there is not much hunting that i would consider dry ground. Sure the snow burns off the south slopes and the rock piles but i didnt see that as being dry ground.
31 tracks in 14 days, i just never had that good of luck there. Maybe i shoulda tried some glassing i guess. 31 bobcat tracks i would believe but not 31 lion tracks.
How many of these 31 tracks were glassed from 2 miles away? I hunted a lot of different country in CO and always thought i had a good day if i found 1 lion track. Maybe i was hunting the wrong places.
I went back to page 18 in the lion hunting section and noticed the pic you posted tracker, of the Bitter Sweet revenge lion and wondered why you posted that, but not a single one of your secret weapon French Hounds. Hell, after all the talk and bragging about these hounds i would just like to see a pic of one of them treed on a Red Runner or something. Is that the only lion you ever caught?
One more question tracker. If these French Hounds are catching lion that the camerons cant, why are you still hunting the camerons?