BigGameHoundsmen.com

Where did I condemn the line. I said I had a 50-50 success rate.and the owner in my opinion is dishonest. Enough said

Catch wrote:Where did I condemn the line. I said I had a 50-50 success rate.and the owner in my opinion is dishonest. Enough said

It sounds like you had a bad experience. Hate to hear that. I think it would be a good idea for anyone pursuing a line of breeding (not just the ursus dogs) to do their research on the character behind the breeding, And get several opinions from several sources. Again, I think its a "law of averages" thing. If most folks have positive things to say about the character of the person in question...then that's what I'd go with. Of course theres also something to be said about judging someone by the way they treat you. If most of the folks you talk to have negative things to say about that person, then I'd say you'd better steer clear of them, jmo

But if the guys with all the good things to say are the only ones to speak up we will never hear if there is any bad to be said, that's y I said let's hear it all for that reason u mentioned Wvplott.

I will say that I have dealt with Steve Mohr on many occasions and have been up to his place and hunted with him, to me he has been good to deal with and honest as they come about things.

Ursus Plotts have been bred for many years to be bear dogs and thats what they are, not everyone turns out, but from my experience a high percentage make the grade.

If you want to know something about his dogs, give him a call, he will share the good and bad about his dogs. There are also plenty of guys out there hunting mainly Ursus packs with lots of success.

Todd Irvin

[quote="backwoods1"]I do take everthing I hear with a grain of salt, but I wanna hear both sides. No need to cover anything up. I don't thinks its right to cover up anything. All breeds have faults Iam not knocking anybody just wanna hear everbodys experiences!![/quote]

Here's what you stated initially and I pulled up Catch's post from page 1 which answered your question.

In addition, Catch stated that he felt Steve was dishonest. He also stated on page 1 that people should PM him if they wanted more info on his experience. If you want details specifically on his personal dealings with Steve, maybe that would be the appropriate route to go? If you decide to pursue it I think it would be a good idea to speak with Steve about it too. In all fairness, you should at least get "both sides" of the story before passing judgement. There are too many people who have good things to say about Steve and his dogs... he deserves that much.

backwoods1 wrote:It seems you have more to say about the breed "catch" I'd like to here as I wanna as much as I can about a man an his dogs before I decide to get one or not! With that said I no no matter what the breed or the guy there always be people talking them up an down, as well as good an bad dogs no matter the case! Let's here it please-

Even though I know the TOTAL issue very well, I also would like to hear why a person would attack a 73 year old man who is not on this site to defend himself. A man who has hunted and bred a Line of dogs for close to 50 years now. A man who started with a legend and has become a legend himself. A man so accomplished at training and being a hunter of such a successful degree, one of his first dogs, Ursus Rowdy, is in about every Plott there is today. A man who has owned a extremely successful guiding service for many of those years in some of the toughest terrain on the North American continent, the coast of BC. A man who's Line of dogs is on every Continent of the world and has totally revolutionized the hunting of big game in the European Union and Scandinavian countries. A man so well respected and liked in close to 30 countries over there, him and his wife are invited yearly, paid for totally, to be the honored guest in celebrations of what his Line has done for the management of big game species in those countries. A man that is working diligently with Businesses like the UKC to get issues changed that will further the oldest registry the Breed has in those countries. A man that never advertises his dogs, does not need nor want any promotion of them, only for one reason, he believes his dogs can promote themselves by their performance.

So let's hear it Mr. Worthington. Tells us why you wish to attack such a man that's not here to defend himself. Don't hide behind the back of the board. Bring it on!!!

Mr. Backwoods1, I have no idea if your legit or not simply because Worthington is famous for using multiple names to make it appear he has a following. But just so you and all others know, no one man can make a Line has large as the Ursus Line is by himself in today's world. Steve Mohr also has the uncanny ability to identify those hunters and trainers that contact him that would be able to test and prove out the dogs they get from him to help further his breeding. I personally have been involved in this for close to 25 years now. I know of no such "warranty" that has been mentioned on any Ursus dog. Mr. White has already put this forward, the problem with guarantees and warranties is not with the dogs, but the people who get them. But those trainers and hunters that Steve thinks will help with the Line, there's culls in those just like in the crosses that are made with the dogs. These "special" people Steve thinks will promote his breeding often receive dogs from proven crosses and special crosses that Steve wants to further his Line with. When these type dogs are said to be a cull from one of those people, and it continually happens, these dogs are taken back for two very specific reasons. They are put with hunters and trainers Steve knows and trusts to find out (1) what specific part of a trait failed. This shows what other dogs of the cross should be watched and proven for. (2) To see if the trainer that continually has failures really knows what the heck he's doing. About a year or so ago I picked up one of those "failures or culls". The dog went to a very good hunter of coon, cat and bear on the Washington Coast. The dog became a exceptional coon dog. He also stayed on a bobcat, by himself, through multiple jump outs, for 14 hours and went over 18 miles according to the Garmin. The dog is now in Sweden where only two dogs can be used to catch their European Brown Bears (grizzlies). The dog has successful been on 11 bears, one he alone went 22 miles on and held by himself for over two hours till the hunters could reach him. Definitely not every "cull" that Steve wishes to be further tested receives this fate. Dogs are no more than a tool of man. Unfortunately, some people believe that a dog should be the hunter. It's the person doing the hunting that's the hunter, not the tool. This is what happens to dogs that are allowed to be returned. Now I ask you all, is that not a "warranty" of those that test and prove the dogs more than the dogs themselves?

Sounds to me like someone got culled from the testing list

MY point has been since the beginning of thus post was to hear BOTH sides, I've heard the good an seen the good, just wondering the bad cause I no its out there! An I do not think we should "pm" so nobody else can see the bad sides! What bothers me is there are a few of u that try so hard to protect him "mohr" that's what make me wonder!!!!! An Iam not following anybody Dennis fisher nor do I have a pickers with Steve or his dogs. Simply trying to learn because what I've seen from his dogs so far I like!

Backwoods, if what you have seen you like. The what is the problem? There is going to be bad from time to time in all lines. They are dogs what do you expect? Some guys can train dogs and some can't. Some dogs take a little more time to develop then others, and some guys do not have the time or patience to develop them. What really are your expectations. Certainly it cannot be to find a pup that has a 100% chance of turning out. I don't believe that exists.

Dennis Fisher wrote:

backwoods1 wrote:It seems you have more to say about the breed "catch" I'd like to here as I wanna as much as I can about a man an his dogs before I decide to get one or not! With that said I no no matter what the breed or the guy there always be people talking them up an down, as well as good an bad dogs no matter the case! Let's here it please-

Even though I know the TOTAL issue very well, I also would like to hear why a person would attack a 73 year old man who is not on this site to defend himself. A man who has hunted and bred a Line of dogs for close to 50 years now. A man who started with a legend and has become a legend himself. A man so accomplished at training and being a hunter of such a successful degree, one of his first dogs, Ursus Rowdy, is in about every Plott there is today. A man who has owned a extremely successful guiding service for many of those years in some of the toughest terrain on the North American continent, the coast of BC. A man who's Line of dogs is on every Continent of the world and has totally revolutionized the hunting of big game in the European Union and Scandinavian countries. A man so well respected and liked in close to 30 countries over there, him and his wife are invited yearly, paid for totally, to be the honored guest in celebrations of what his Line has done for the management of big game species in those countries. A man that is working diligently with Businesses like the UKC to get issues changed that will further the oldest registry the Breed has in those countries. A man that never advertises his dogs, does not need nor want any promotion of them, only for one reason, he believes his dogs can promote themselves by their performance.

So let's hear it Mr. Worthington. Tells us why you wish to attack such a man that's not here to defend himself. Don't hide behind the back of the board. Bring it on!!!

Mr. Backwoods1, I have no idea if your legit or not simply because Worthington is famous for using multiple names to make it appear he has a following. But just so you and all others know, no one man can make a Line has large as the Ursus Line is by himself in today's world. Steve Mohr also has the uncanny ability to identify those hunters and trainers that contact him that would be able to test and prove out the dogs they get from him to help further his breeding. I personally have been involved in this for close to 25 years now. I know of no such "warranty" that has been mentioned on any Ursus dog. Mr. White has already put this forward, the problem with guarantees and warranties is not with the dogs, but the people who get them. But those trainers and hunters that Steve thinks will help with the Line, there's culls in those just like in the crosses that are made with the dogs. These "special" people Steve thinks will promote his breeding often receive dogs from proven crosses and special crosses that Steve wants to further his Line with. When these type dogs are said to be a cull from one of those people, and it continually happens, these dogs are taken back for two very specific reasons. They are put with hunters and trainers Steve knows and trusts to find out (1) what specific part of a trait failed. This shows what other dogs of the cross should be watched and proven for. (2) To see if the trainer that continually has failures really knows what the heck he's doing. About a year or so ago I picked up one of those "failures or culls". The dog went to a very good hunter of coon, cat and bear on the Washington Coast. The dog became a exceptional coon dog. He also stayed on a bobcat, by himself, through multiple jump outs, for 14 hours and went over 18 miles according to the Garmin. The dog is now in Sweden where only two dogs can be used to catch their European Brown Bears (grizzlies). The dog has successful been on 11 bears, one he alone went 22 miles on and held by himself for over two hours till the hunters could reach him. Definitely not every "cull" that Steve wishes to be further tested receives this fate. Dogs are no more than a tool of man. Unfortunately, some people believe that a dog should be the hunter. It's the person doing the hunting that's the hunter, not the tool. This is what happens to dogs that are allowed to be returned. Now I ask you all, is that not a "warranty" of those that test and prove the dogs more than the dogs themselves?

Dennis, if you and Steve White wish to argue go ahead. If you want to put up facts, do so! I sure hope you don't believe everything you posted.

I wish I had stock in the phone company.

Good day!

Mr. Backwoods1, I admire your desire to seek the truth of both the good and bad of a Breed or Line of dogs you are thinking about getting into. And the answer to your question is quite simple. As I've already mentioned, a dog is simply a tool of man. Just as you choose a gun by comparing type and caliber, so must a wise and good hunter choose the dog he will use in his hopes and desires to hunt successfully. Just as with choosing a choice of a gun, the traits and abilities that each Breed of dog was created to be used for must also be looked at in a very similar way. Sure some traits of the different Breeds will overlap. Sure there will be dogs of every Breed that will excel far past what the creators of the Breed created it to do. But what the DNA of what a dog was created for is what it is. Both the good and bad of the Ursus dogs is simply this; they are exceptional examples of what the Plott Breed was intended to be.

Worthington, you cowardly attack those that aren't on this site to defend their selves. You were asked nicely by another and challenged by me to put up or shut up. Once again you put forth no more than nothing to show all the truth of your words and what type of person you really are.

backwoods1 wrote:MY point has been since the beginning of thus post was to hear BOTH sides, I've heard the good an seen the good, just wondering the bad cause I no its out there! An I do not think we should "pm" so nobody else can see the bad sides! What bothers me is there are a few of u that try so hard to protect him "mohr" that's what make me wonder!!!!! An Iam not following anybody Dennis fisher nor do I have a pickers with Steve or his dogs. Simply trying to learn because what I've seen from his dogs so far I like!

What is it you are wanting to know? On one hand it sounds like you want to hear the good and bad about Steve's dogs... and, on the other, you hint around that you wanna hear what Catch and others have to say about Steve's Character.

Which is it?

If you wanna have an honest discussion about Steve's dogs (the good and the bad), I think the public forum is an appropriate place for that. If you want to hear what one guy has to say about his personal dealings with Steve (which may or may not be true), do it in private.

Like Dennis said, Steve's not on here to defend himself... and anything that is posted on here about Steve's character will be taken by many as truth (even if it may not be).

The reason you see people defending Steve on here is because they respect the man and what he has contributed to the sport, not because they are trying to cover anything up.

I hate typing on this, I only have my phone for internet use! I simply just wanted to hear the good an bad. I understand why a guy would respect Mr. Mohr, also why I don't wanna call him yet is I no what he is gonna say I've seen his site. If any of u would like to discuss further just pm me an ill send my number. Thanks

backwoods1 is legit, i some times hunt with him, he has hunted with the dogs i got from steve, and liked how they are fast learners and i think he just wanted to hear the good and bad about this line, not one persons issues that dont define the dogs.

also, catch... You said i already know what dogs you have, i honestly dont, i know
you hunt plotts, but figured they are not ursus bred.

Dennis you are a wind bag and a hypocrite. You know damn well the phones to Steve's are burning red hot with all the words wrote in this post. He has chosen to stay of this conversation because he most likely has better things to do, or he doesn't care. Besides, why would he get involved when the head Ursus Plott cheerleader is on it. LETS GO URSUS LETS GO!

I do need to show you and others kind words you have spoke towards a man that can't defend himself. A man that has passed on.

You wrote about Demoss on Smithdeal:

He was indeed a legendary hunter. A great man to learn about dogs and hunting from too. But unfortunately some around here had to learn much more than just about dogs from him. They weren't all that privelage with the knowledge they learned when they lost over $25,000 after helping him start his fiberglass shop.

But Dee had one considerable fault, MONEY.

Dee was truly a man that did things with his dogs and hunted them in such a way that no one has or will ever be able to equal. His knowledge of how to hunt and be successful at hunting dogs was equaled by no one I have ever hunted with or have ever read about.


When Dee moved here he lived a life of seclusion. I know not what he did before he came that caused his life to be lived in such a manor. But I do know many didn't have good dog and paper dealing with him. He didn't even keep all his dogs here. He hunted some and what he didn't sell he moved and brought in more. From where I know not. He did this cause he lived in fear his location would be found and those dogs would be poisoned or taken. Now we all know, or should any how, how much it would take for other houndman to come after anothers dogs. Someone or some people were flat out pissed

But after all I did for him, he never did trust or pay that back anything in any manor besides passing on his knowledge either.

But remember, Dee's Line died because he couldn't be trusted and nobodies really knows what he used in it.

Many respected what he had achieved with his hunting so highly all he had to do was ask for help of any kind and he got it. I assure you, there was legal documentation drawn up before that money was lent.



Great job picking on a dead man that can't defend himself! I guess it is only OK if you do it.

Dennis Fisher wrote:

backwoods1 wrote:It seems you have more to say about the breed "catch" I'd like to here as I wanna as much as I can about a man an his dogs before I decide to get one or not! With that said I no no matter what the breed or the guy there always be people talking them up an down, as well as good an bad dogs no matter the case! Let's here it please-

Even though I know the TOTAL issue very well, I also would like to hear why a person would attack a 73 year old man who is not on this site to defend himself. A man who has hunted and bred a Line of dogs for close to 50 years now. A man who started with a legend and has become a legend himself. A man so accomplished at training and being a hunter of such a successful degree, one of his first dogs, Ursus Rowdy, is in about every Plott there is today. A man who has owned a extremely successful guiding service for many of those years in some of the toughest terrain on the North American continent, the coast of BC. A man who's Line of dogs is on every Continent of the world and has totally revolutionized the hunting of big game in the European Union and Scandinavian countries. A man so well respected and liked in close to 30 countries over there, him and his wife are invited yearly, paid for totally, to be the honored guest in celebrations of what his Line has done for the management of big game species in those countries. A man that is working diligently with Businesses like the UKC to get issues changed that will further the oldest registry the Breed has in those countries. A man that never advertises his dogs, does not need nor want any promotion of them, only for one reason, he believes his dogs can promote themselves by their performance.

So let's hear it Mr. Worthington. Tells us why you wish to attack such a man that's not here to defend himself. Don't hide behind the back of the board. Bring it on!!!

Mr. Backwoods1, I have no idea if your legit or not simply because Worthington is famous for using multiple names to make it appear he has a following. But just so you and all others know, no one man can make a Line has large as the Ursus Line is by himself in today's world. Steve Mohr also has the uncanny ability to identify those hunters and trainers that contact him that would be able to test and prove out the dogs they get from him to help further his breeding. I personally have been involved in this for close to 25 years now. I know of no such "warranty" that has been mentioned on any Ursus dog. Mr. White has already put this forward, the problem with guarantees and warranties is not with the dogs, but the people who get them. But those trainers and hunters that Steve thinks will help with the Line, there's culls in those just like in the crosses that are made with the dogs. These "special" people Steve thinks will promote his breeding often receive dogs from proven crosses and special crosses that Steve wants to further his Line with. When these type dogs are said to be a cull from one of those people, and it continually happens, these dogs are taken back for two very specific reasons. They are put with hunters and trainers Steve knows and trusts to find out (1) what specific part of a trait failed. This shows what other dogs of the cross should be watched and proven for. (2) To see if the trainer that continually has failures really knows what the heck he's doing. About a year or so ago I picked up one of those "failures or culls". The dog went to a very good hunter of coon, cat and bear on the Washington Coast. The dog became a exceptional coon dog. He also stayed on a bobcat, by himself, through multiple jump outs, for 14 hours and went over 18 miles according to the Garmin. The dog is now in Sweden where only two dogs can be used to catch their European Brown Bears (grizzlies). The dog has successful been on 11 bears, one he alone went 22 miles on and held by himself for over two hours till the hunters could reach him. Definitely not every "cull" that Steve wishes to be further tested receives this fate. Dogs are no more than a tool of man. Unfortunately, some people believe that a dog should be the hunter. It's the person doing the hunting that's the hunter, not the tool. This is what happens to dogs that are allowed to be returned. Now I ask you all, is that not a "warranty" of those that test and prove the dogs more than the dogs themselves?

Now, I will show you some real facts. You said you know the "TOTAL" issue well. No you don't because you have never heard my side and there is always two sides to a story. I Emailed Steve and asked to make it right and he declined. He has never advertises or promotes his dogs? Dennis, Steve has two web sites doing just that. You might want to read a pedigree if you think the Ursus line was done by one man. Only one man has done it and he doesn't live in Canada. Steve has accomplished many things no doubt about it. He has done the Plott breed a good thing. He may be the first to tree a Martian on Mars. He may have sold Jack those magical bean seeds. You can paint it how ever you like but I stand by what I have said. If you want to talk about facts over the phone, you have my number.

Take care!