Who has a dog or dogs in there pack that can catch alone?

[twist]

I never claimed my monkeys to be the best. I sure have no problem catching cats with them. I have never once said dry grounding cant be done I have done it and seen it done but not in this area and beleive me I have tried maybe I just need some new dogs. For now I will just settle with the monkeys I have and train them the easy way behind my older ones. Seems for the most part they end up at a tree. Andy

[newby]

I started this hunting stuff the hard way...I didn't have an older finished dogs to train my "monkeys" with, so I was forced to just let my young started dog fumble and stumble until they started putting some peices to the puzzle together. I'm sure if I had the wrong started dog, I'd be buying a finished dog to get the young ones going, but I got blessed with a young dog that was independent, confident and just naturally gamey enough to keep trying. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It's caused me to be less worried about what's at the end of the track and more concerned about making dogs that will eventually have what I want at the end of the track. I don't mind putting young dogs on tracks and having them blow it up cause at least they're learning something, don't learn nothing in the box. People look at me nuts when I start tracks with my 10 month old pup, and my older male wants to eat the box, but at least I'm making that pup into a dog that can catch her own stuff. jmo

[memo jaramillo]

I'm no expert but I'll say what we do here in mexico
hunt with a team of running dogs have good noses some others are fast to jump the cat and put some pressure and locator tree tree dog, this is no problem for 60% of the catchin bobcat in the ground
the garmin help with the remaining 40% when dogs lost the cats are in small circles we help the dog to locate the cat
coon hound dogs do not help here, many bark on a tree when the other dogs push the cat.
if this problem
Here you need a dog team, so dry and hot
never seen here with 2dogs caugth a bobcat

ADIOS AMIGOS

[cobalt]

Twist, I mean no disrespect to you or your dogs at all, I like all dogs of all origins and I don't judge a dog by its owner. It is a difference in how dogs are trained, encouraged, directed, etc. I read in a different thread that you hunt year round and thats all you do. Given this knowledge of you, by you, it makes me wonder why you keep on going down the same road with the same results of failure in certain conditions and are not willing to accept something that might produce a different outcome. Success can be gauged by progress not just wins.
This is your topic, for God sakes and I think it's a good one because there is more than one way to skin a cat and different motives to justify a means to an end. I see no willingness to improve what you have going. You seem to think there might be something better out there and yet it seems that all the fault lies in the dogs. Why get defensive when apparently you are inquisitive about others experiences and opinions. I could give a crap about how you do things. It's your life and your dogs. These posts are for everybody who is interested in the question at hand, not just you.
I apologize about the whole monkey see, monkey do mocking of your training style. I do believe there is a lot of merit in that method as far as catch rate(young dogs need to see game) and competition amongst the dogs (honoring and track drive) as well as other positives. I just wanted to add that it is not the whole bag of beans in my opinion and the movement towards a better pack is by building a better dog no matter where you live and you just can't judge individuals in a 100% pack atmosphere IMO. It's like George said, if you want to see a dogs faults, hunt it alone.
Good Luck.

[catdogs]

I agree with cobalt. Every dog I own will tree a lion solo. I think it gives the dog important confidence, I think it helps that dog transition into being a leader, and I also think it helps bring their skills along quicker. As soon as a young dog is intereted in taking a track, and this is usually after they have made a few complete races with older dogs, I will let them start a track on their own for a few hundered yards before dumping an older dog. When they seem to be doing that ok, then I cut them loose and see if they can make the tree alone. Its' not that I ever run dogs solo on lion, but I know if something happens to my lead dogs, I have dogs that will step up and take over. Aside from giving a young dog confidence, it also gives me confidence in the dog. I really don't think letting young dogs follow a pack around time after time is as productive. You get deep snow tracks, after the 2nd or 3rd track, there isn't much scent to follow there anyway.

[mike martell]

I really like this thread. I also like U.R.E and Cobalts analogy of dogs. I come from a different back ground and thought on hounds. I have owned rig dogs since time began back in the 70's when you seldom seen another hunter rigging. I would no more buy a dog now after trying for several years to reinvent the wheel.

Monkey see monkey do pretty much describes me and my system....I admit to being upside down, backwards and 180 degrees out.....but this is all my dogs know and it happens daily. I don't switch nothing from where i expect a dog to be chained on the rig deck to how i expect them to load each in its own kennel spot when returning home. Dogs that don't understand the basics don't last long...Dogs are simple and so am I....I start my cat dogs, all one of them from scratch on coon, once solid and locating well, not to mention bent off trash they are transitioned over to bobcats. Once they catch a bobcat on a regular basis, I go back to the creek bottoms thick with coon and the dog teaches itself to rig on coon, then back to rigging bobcats.The first dog in my pack was 18 months when he become a solid locating tree dog in the big timber and from there is where it falls into place. I'm very careful to not add the third dog until the second dog has the ability to do the same as my first dog. but i must admit once i have the main dog solid, it goes really quick carrying over to the next.....I think this is what cobalt is trying to say.

Rigging comes natural for many dogs and even more so when you have a line bred to rig and a trained rig dog to ignite the others...once you have selected a line of dogs that are cat dog bred and from a line of rig dogs it comes pretty easy....but for my liking you must each try out to make the team, I'm the coach and if you can't catch your own cat you have no place here. i have one that i exempt simply because he is always advancing the track and can pick up a lose very well, he will be two years old at the end of may and i know he will figure out the locating in the following season, he would of had it figured out if I didn't have to lay him up because season ended. plus i have what i call anchor point tree dogs and this allows me to nurture the weak link....You would be suprised what a dog can do if it is hunting for you and not the other way around....This way it is Pretty hard to lose your one main dog when they are all your main dogs.

Happy Easter to all and Good Hunting!

[twist]

Cobalt, I understand your thought also no offense taken as in my first post I said I ussually hunt 4 dogs and all can and do catch their own cat. I Have learned the best way to teach a young dog is run them with older dogs and when i say this I meen Experianced TOp cat dogs. I understand there is more ways to skin a cat than just one way and I respect others that do never have you seen or heard me be disrepectful to others If anything I encourage out try to give a little of what I have learned over the years. As for the dry grounding goes here I have tried it for many years with many different dogs some very nice dogs that have got it done in other area and I have not seen it work here yes maybe it can be done here but until I have seen it not heard it I have a hard time with that and yes I have heard it but for some reason no one in this area that claims it will show it. I truely enjoy all of your posts even if I dont agree. lol Also great post Mike. Andy