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Re: back trailing
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:34 am
by twist
dhostetler, very well said. Andy
Re: back trailing
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:49 pm
by david
Below is a reply to a kind man who sent me a pm about how stupid my posts are. He is right.
Haha. So sorry to nmbowhunter and others. Here is a feeble attempt to explain my feelings about it.
david wrote:It was nice of you to send me a pm instead of giving it to me out front. You are an honorable man.
I still believe the problem is genetic, and if I was the breeder, would do whatever I could to get the dog back so I could study it myself. Yes these issues can sometimes be resolved by training, but I would want to at least try and eliminate these tendancies in my line of dogs. The fact that he had a brother with exactly the same training who did not develop the problem, to me is evidence that the fault is based on recesive genes. Recesives are forever because they are carried but hidden until they pair up and express themselves in an individual. A breeder can learn a lot about his line of dogs when he is lucky enough for it to become visable to him. He can begin to track down the possible carriers and breed away from it if it is important to him.
As Robin said there are people willing to wear out a shock collar on a dog to correct genetic deficiencies, and there are also breeders who see a problem like this and immediately eliminate it from their pack because there are plenty of dogs with the same training, and maybe even from the same breeding, who never develop the problem. They are not willing to spend time and money to train up a dog that could not possibly be used in their breeding program.
The fact that the breeder wants the dog back is a good sign to me. He is probably a serious breeder, and will benefit from studying this dog.
I am pretty patient with dog faults. I like the training part and the challenge of getting an inferior dog to the point of being usefull. I am glad God and my parents had that kind of patience with me. With you me and every dog, our genetics determine how we respond to out environment and training. Cat hunting is tough. Dogs being distracted at the wrong moment can mean the difference between game located or not. I have dealt with this same problem in my life, and I can't really think of anything I will tolerate less, because of my own personal experience. Others who responded negatively probably have suffered similar losses and heart aches.
I wish I had not posted, and I often feel that way. I missed [a bunch] of posts without realizing it, and I really added zero to the conversation, and as you pointed out, probably detracted from it.
My apologies. Sincerely, David
Re: back trailing
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:09 pm
by Dan Edwards
All I know is that if a dog is running a track the right way and it peters out or it trees or whatever it shouldn't be running that same track backwards. If they back track out to the road to me or whatever then that's a whole different thing. Running a track backwards though that they were taking the right direction is all dicked up. dhostetler, I too have seen older dogs that got jealous or crazy or like you said senile do that stuff. That's usually when I don't hunt them anymore. I get to feelin sorry for the old buggers.
Now, my dogs will start a track backwards 100% of the time if I send them the wrong way up a fence row or whatever to a coyote that I seen out there. Say I seen the coyote heading east down a fence row and I send em from the south going north to that fence row and the wind is out of the northwest. I can promise you every single dog gone time they are gonna take that track backwards and usually 100 yards before they ever get to the track foot print. If I got 2 coyote dogs with me I will do it anyhow cuz I know within about 3 or 4 hundred yards they are gonna swing around and get it going the right way. Young dogs though forget about it, I've seen them dumb sumbitches run it backwards for a couple miles before. You gotta try and get them retards going the right way or its all gonnna blow up in your face.
I got off topic but if I see a dog take a track forward a mile and then turn around and run that same track backwards I know I'm not lookin at a dog that has it all between the ears. Something is very very wrong.
Re: back trailing
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:21 pm
by dwalton
Taking a track from the start is a different thing than dogs coming back on a track after trailing it the right way. I have only seen a very few dogs able to determined the right in of a cold to warm track when they start it. A lot can tell which way a hot track is going quickly. Now as far as a dog turning around at a tree or on a loose to trail backwards is a huge fault. All dogs can bring to the hunt is breeding and training [Genetics]. Things like running a dog with a dog that comes back down a track will ruin a pack of dogs quickly. Track smarts.... if a dog is bred to open only on a clean track while moving it forward, back tracking is not a problem. Some problems can be corrected and caused by poor handling or poor breeding. If one hunts enough you will see outstanding dogs that excel at hunting and trailing with little or no help from their owner. Now think about it, which dog do you want to hunt? I can tolerate faults in a dog if they add to me treeing that game but will not waste my time on a dog that takes away from the goal of treeing what ever I hunt. Each person has to decide what they are up at hunting, do you want to listen to a race or trail job or do you want to catch game. Trailing backwards is a huge fault and in most cases it is breeding. Each to their own just don't breed them. Dewey
Re: back trailing
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:10 pm
by muzzy
i have only seen one dog do this coincidentally it was also a b&t and every instance of this happening i have heard of were b&ts. is this a breed fault or just coincidence that that's all ive heard of in my limited experience. the reason im asking is because i had never seen a dog do this until a month ago then i talked to another houndsman who said he had a dog that did it then this post popped up and in all three cases the dog was a b&t.
Re: back trailing
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:36 pm
by dwalton
It is and can be in any breed. I believe it happens when people breed dogs to really pound a track, which is a good trait in areas of dry ground hunting. Where it does not work is where people hearing a lot of noise on a track with the dogs working a track back and forth where there is a lot of scent opening on a covered track not progressing the track forward think the dog is a great cold trailer and breeding it. All one has to do is walk or ride a mule behind your dogs and watch them you will see what you need in a track dog. You can set in a rig and listen to the noise and make up any kind of story you want or you can get out there and learn what really happens. In my younger days I walked thousand of miles behind lion and bobcat dogs. They educated me as to what is happening. Everyone should hunt on foot in the day time before they rig hunt or maybe just hunt with an old timer that catches a lot of game. Dewey
Re: back trailing
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:58 pm
by Dan Edwards
muzzy wrote:i have only seen one dog do this coincidentally it was also a b&t and every instance of this happening i have heard of were b&ts. is this a breed fault or just coincidence that that's all ive heard of in my limited experience. the reason im asking is because i had never seen a dog do this until a month ago then i talked to another houndsman who said he had a dog that did it then this post popped up and in all three cases the dog was a b&t.
Trust me it aint just black and tans. I seen a redbone once literally do this all over the damn woods. I watched it the whole time and was loving it. I laughed my ass off that day. I couldn't believe the dog was that bad but he damn sure was. All that dog wanted to do was trail and it didn't matter what direction he was going. I was all by myself and just enjoying the day so I had a great time watching that fool.