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David, I know dogs can sometimes have success trailing bobcat tracks that were made several hours ago. Actually believe I have owned such dogs , know the dogs I hunt with now are capable of doing so at times, however it/s when someone tells me their whole pack makes these old tracks look easy, trailing at a very fast pace with their heads up, then I have to doubt that, unless sight tracking in snow. I do not think most hide hunters put up big catch numbers, when working those type tracks. Anyone who catches 22 big toms out 28 cats harvested, is either damn lucky or hunting snow where not a large amount of hunters are hunting, in my opinion. As you well know on average those large toms are the easiest cats to catch. I do not mean to sound mean spirited or belittle anyone, just giving my opinion based on personal experience & visiting with hunters who are STRAIT SHOOTERS, WITH YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. Met you and enjoyed visiting with you. Other things, I have trouble taking serious, running dogs never get tired, running dogs never take an old track backwards, anytime a loose is made the cat either treed or went in a hole, if the cat is not seen I can not in good faith say, the dogs caught that cat. Counting those as caught, sure would make for big numbers. I can sure tell you I have hunted with a few running crosses that were dang nice, can think of two off hand that I owned that were way above average. I visited with a hunter recent whom spent time hunting with two well known hunters from here this winter, he said those two had treed very few cat, but had caught a bunch of fox, both of these hunters have sold dogs all over the country.. I visited with a very honest good cat hunter today, he said cat are hard to find in good numbers & he also has become more of a fox hunter. The very best to you and hope to see you again. Thanks Al

I was kidding with you Al. I shouldn't try to be funny because no one gets my fun except me. I enjoy your posts and your role in testing everything said according to your own experience. I like it when someone says something I am pretty sure you will challenge. Then I smile and wait for you to do your thing. You never let me down. ...Well, OK, Almost never.

If a person were to live trap 10 bobcats all close in size and the same sex and turn one loose at 6pm every night for 10 nights and put a dog on that track at 6am the next day 10 times, how many would be trailed up and caught? Snow tracks and Bare Ground tracks.

Snow tracks I would expect at the least 8. Our normal dry none. Any one believing they are catching anything but smoking tracks in our dry conditions are DREAMERS! Andy

Thanks David, I was just trying to show a little humor when I posted about the two week old cat success. Have a good one. Mark have no idea how many of those cats would be caught, but I don/t think it would be a high percentage, bare ground. Have been told most don/t run hard, but suspect unless extremely hungry, they would head for the den.

Al

None. Track would be frozen in at 6 am. If they were Tom's turned loose at 2am and the snow softened up by 2pm a couple if it wasnt to windy, if there was still snow covering the South sloaps, if the snow hadnt dripped off the trees and washed the track out and if a lot of other factors that that could screw the track up werent present. Then the right dogs were turned loose.

mark wrote:If a person were to live trap 10 bobcats all close in size and the same sex and turn one loose at 6pm every night for 10 nights and put a dog on that track at 6am the next day 10 times, how many would be trailed up and caught? Snow tracks and Bare Ground tracks.

Mark the variables are endless. I would say from what little experience I have in Florida it would be zero out of ten.

I would say from what little experience I have in Oregon on bare ground, I would not waste my time on a twelve hour old track when I could probably find a recent track with a lot less effort and time than it would take to get an old track jumped. It is so much harder to age bare ground tracks, so really am just guessing, but I doubt I have ever even fooled with a 12 hour old bare ground track.

In the frozen North, in stable weather, if you would change your question to how many of the 12 hour cats I would expect to JUMP with a Good jump dog: all of them. Well, OK Al, lol, nine of them.

"Catching" the Great Lakes cats in numbers depends on having a dog that can consistently stop them on the ground. Without that dog, only the one or two or three out of ten that will climb a tree will be caught.

I was talking snow. O if bare
ground around here.

Mark that would be an interesting thing to do. I doubt that with most hunters very few,some hunters more. People that run game other than bobcat none. This winter I only trailed 1 bobcat that might of been that old in the snow. The conditions this winter most of the bobcats I started I treed because I was not far behind them. There is a big difference in what people think can be done with bobcat hunting as David said in his book there are many levels of bobcat hunters. Good snow with good conditions several of them, bare ground very few. The longest I ever trailed a bobcat on bare ground both in distance and hours was from 7 AM to 10 PM when they treed it, the cat a big tom was traveling all day I am sure. How old it was when I started it Who knows. There are bobcat hunters that are tickled to tree a cat and there are hunters that tree one almost every time out. It seems that most of the people that tree less than 15 bobcats a year do most of the talking on here. I had a good friend that I consider the best bobcat hunter in the Northwest that I know of gives very little information out. I ask him why that was his reply was I got tired of fighting when someone call me a lier. I have people that can not believe or take it out of context what I post on here that have never hunted with me or even been able to tree many bobcats in his area and has never hunted out of his area and he knows how it is. Is there something I am missing here. It just appears the less you know the better of an expert you are. I heard one time that ignorance is bless but why would anyone want to stay there. Dewey

Mark, I don't know anything but I doubt any on bare ground well maybe one if it went 100 yards and took a nap then that one. Snow Idk but probably a few..... Why are numbers such a big deal? Maybe that 15 cat guy only hunted 15 days. Or maybe he only hunted 10 days to get that 15 or less. There is a lot of variables that make numbers.

Went back & read my post four times, can/t see where I called anyone a lair. I just stated my opinion based my experience & information shared by seasoned hunters, whom have a lot of experience hunting this area & numerous other areas. If one choses to tell others how ignorant they are, believe that person should have the right to state his opinion. I base my opinion on how intelligent a person is on a wide variety of accomplishments in life, not just how many bobcat that individual trees a year. If one choses to tell others how great his dogs are, should he not expect others to question some of those accomplishments? Al

In NW Montana if you can't start a 12 hour old track in good snow conditions, you will catch very few bobcats.

[quote="merlo_105"]Mark, I don't know anything but I doubt any on bare ground well maybe one if it went 100 yards and took a nap then that one. Snow Idk but probably a few..... Why are numbers such a big deal? Maybe that 15 cat guy only hunted 15 days. Or maybe he only hunted 10 days to get that 15 or less. There is a lot of variables that make numbers.[/quote x2 you also cant run big numbers if the cat population isnt there to begin with.

Al I post on here what can be done with dogs and time spent in the woods. For me there a lot better hunters and breeders out if one will just look and see whats out there. I caught most of my western Oregon bobcats in an area that I hunt very little in the last 5 years because it has been hunted hard by others no one was there this year so I hunted it. If there was snow I turned down females and kittens Sometimes covering hundreds of miles to start a tom. On bare ground I look for tracks and scat finding where a big tom was and hunted till I caught him. When the rut started I hit the high ridges and stayed out of the prime habitat away from where females and kittens stay. As far as numbers from the bobcat studies I have read and I worked on one the density is far greater on the coast range than anywhere else in Oregon. I don't hunt there because of low fur value. I find or start very few bobcats a day and some days none but do catch what I start most of the time. I don't raise dogs to sale but sale a few when I raise a litter for myself. I hunt a large area and love going into a area I have never hunted and find cats. I kill bobcats in season, take care of the hides and feed the rest to my dogs using it all. The studies and tooth counts say we are under harvesting bobcats in western Oregon but yet I catch hell from most of the guys that hunt bobcats for killing them. Is that because they can't find or catch bobcats or is it jealousy. I don't understand why you try to under mind what I say on here I do understand that you don't see it that way. Stop and think about it maybe there is something you are missing. Is because of the Buddy dog that you liked so well. When Tim got that dog and hunted with me he looked good and it took awhile for us to realize it was a piss poor bobcat dog. It went back to where Tim got him. When you called me about the dog I asked what you were looking for in a dog. You answered a rig dog for bobcats buddy was good at that and I told you so. You hunted him a while called asking why we ever let him go back. I asked you how many bobcats you had caught with him. The aster was we ran 7 last week. Next question how many did you tree, you said well I think we treed on in the bluffs but could not get to them. I have seen on here how good Buddy was for you great but he was not a bobcat dog for me. There is a difference in dogs as well as there is in hunters. I have hunted all over with some top hunters in my younger days and have a high expectation as to what a dog should do. I share on here to show people a possibility as to whats possible. Some people will not take the time to excel at what they do, or try to learn a better way of doing it. Where ever they are at is just find with me. A young man has hunted with me the last two winters that has hunted his whole life with hounds and wants to be a bobcat hunter not that he has not caught bobcat in the past but to learn how to be better. This has been one of my best years hunting not because of few bobcats I have caught but because of the teaching and sharing of what I have learned to him. Thats what life is all about for me learning and sharing hunting not disbelieving or ignorance about what can be done with hounds. Again each to their own if you are where you like to be great, if not do something about it don't waste your time complaining what can't be done. Have a good day Dewey

Can dogs have anything to do with cat population?