Running dogs locating

[twist]

I have no doubt dog that have been hunted in adverse condition can acclimate very easy but take a great bobcat dog from South Texas that's been on 400 plus cats comes to a dry sub-zero snow area is not gunna put to many cats up right out of the box. Or turn the scenario around and see what happens. Andy

[Clyde Lawson]

I have no doubt dog that have been hunted in adverse condition can acclimate very easy but take a great bobcat dog from South Texas that's been on 400 plus cats comes to a dry sub-zero snow area is not gunna put to many cats up right out of the box. Or turn the scenario around and see what happens. Andy

Well stated.

Guy called me asking what I considered a well started bobcat hound? After thinking about it, I told him some things that felt that hound had to be doing. One was that he had been on 50-60 bobcat races with having caught maybe 1/3+ on the ground and treeing maybe 10%. He was from Maine and told me he maybe got to run 12-15 a year!
That would be tough to train a hound if that was all the positive training you could accomplish.
Note: Believe his State only allows a few months that they can run hounds after bobcats.

Glad I live in Oklahoma & only thing better would be in AZ!

[merlo_105]

So out of 55 cats 5.5 are treed? And 18 being caught on the ground. So 23.5 of 55 cats are caught. That's less then 50%. Maybe your math is off. But for arguments sake for the topic. 50% is not suitable for me nor most guys with good cat hounds. Not saying I have good dogs. So a pack that average 50% where I come from is an average hunter with average dogs. Possibly all Blue ticks hahaha kidding guys. A cat in OR has the same lung capacity as a cat in Florida. So all cats should be equal in pursuit.

[mark]

Boy when you break it down like that it dont sound to good.

[al baldwin]

Of the 18 cat caught on the ground, how many are seen by the hunters? Do those running x tree cross dogs locate & tree because they have tree blood in them, or is it the running blood that make them tree? If it is the running blood that make locators & tree dogs out of them , why would you breed the worthless tree dog blood into those fine running dogs? It is my opinion a good cat dog is hard to come by & I would feed any that get the job done. Al PS, MAN I heard a good sounding race today & know for sure those part running crossed dogs out performed the one tree bred dog on that track. However the tree bred hound was the one who located the cat tree, so guess will keep feeding him. Al

[merlo_105]

Glad to hear you got out AL and got to listen to a race. There is a place for every breed and cross.

[mark]

Hey Al, whats the breeding on that tree dog?

[david]

Or is the factor more the person with top dogs rather then the terrain? Some ones top dog might be a cull to one of us? And vise versa. How many Wisconsin, Maine, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska Cat dogs see or are put down on a 50 to 100 tracks a year? I know them Texans and Virginia and Florida guys run a pile so they are put in the same boat as a lot of the NW guys who have CAT DOGS....

I sure have enjoyed this thread, and thanks to Brian for bringing folks out of hibernation.

To Merlo's point above, a dog in Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan that requires two years of 50 tracks before it makes a dog, was culled 80 tracks ago, or more. The dogs that make real cat dogs in these regions are rare. But perhaps the genetics of a dog that makes a bobcat dog with few tracks is far superior to those that require hundreds. (Even if the finished product seems inferior?)(whatever the back ground of tree or non-tree dog). If you live where you can give a dog a couple hundred tracks before you decide, you might not notice, and in fact, the dog might not be a cull. Any where else, it is.

[dwalton]

Merlo and David you guys are right. I have seen dogs that look really good on a few cats that don't make the grade for me and ones that don't look good until 12 months or older become my top dogs. I think there are far more factors then most of us consider such as different dogs do good in different conditions, some people can't handle a high energy dog, if you don't like the dog he won't do well for you, if you can only hunt part time you need a dog that works well for the amount of time you can hunt, ect... We all have dogs that works for our own style of hunting and where we hunt. We all comment on what we know and how we hunt or what we don't know. I wonder how many people on here have hunted in several different sates with the same dogs and how many bobcats do they catch or have caught. What are they basing their knowledge? That said I have yet to meet someone that I could not learn something from. Dewey

[al baldwin]

Hey Al, whats the breeding on that tree dog?

TJ/S Dam, was a gran daughter of sackett jr. her linage traced back to most every coon dog breeding I ever heard of. TJ/S SIRE is a hound called trace, born here at my place from skinner x cody. Al

[Dan Edwards]

Any of yall got any Clover bred dogs in your crosses?

I only wonder cuz a few of them I seen out of him were awful special at certain things.

[merlo_105]

Or is the factor more the person with top dogs rather then the terrain? Some ones top dog might be a cull to one of us? And vise versa. How many Wisconsin, Maine, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska Cat dogs see or are put down on a 50 to 100 tracks a year? I know them Texans and Virginia and Florida guys run a pile so they are put in the same boat as a lot of the NW guys who have CAT DOGS....

I sure have enjoyed this thread, and thanks to Brian for bringing folks out of hibernation.

To Merlo's point above, a dog in Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan that requires two years of 50 tracks before it makes a dog, was culled 80 tracks ago, or more. The dogs that make real cat dogs in these regions are rare. But perhaps the genetics of a dog that makes a bobcat dog with few tracks is far superior to those that require hundreds. (Even if the finished product seems inferior?)(whatever the back ground of tree or non-tree dog). If you live where you can give a dog a couple hundred tracks before you decide, you might not notice, and in fact, the dog might not be a cull. Any where else, it is.

David, is it that when you run 25 tracks and are 50% it doesn't sound so bad and could hold a better percentage record then a dog that has been on 100 cats but only caught 50? More chances for error the more you chase. If I turned loose on 15 tracks and caught 15 cats and then called it a season my dogs are 100% does that mean there good dogs? Plus the guys in Maine and some Wisconsin country are shooting cats a head of dogs so how can one put a % on that dog dog never caught it. I'm sure none of this made since I just woke up.

[Woods]

Some people want to bobcat hunt and some want to bobcat catch. We all want to hear the dogs run, but if they can't move a track there not running there trailing and this can go on all day. My opinion and my opinion only is that you'll catch more bobcat with a dog that runs a lot and trees a little then you will with one that trees a lot and runs a little.

[ridgerunners]

So out of 55 cats 5.5 are treed? And 18 being caught on the ground. So 23.5 of 55 cats are caught. That's less then 50%. Maybe your math is off. But for arguments sake for the topic. 50% is not suitable for me nor most guys with good cat hounds. Not saying I have good dogs. So a pack that average 50% where I come from is an average hunter with average dogs. Possibly all Blue ticks hahaha kidding guys. A cat in OR has the same lung capacity as a cat in Florida. So all cats should be equal in pursuit.

Or is the factor more the person with top dogs rather then the terrain? Some ones top dog might be a cull to one of us? And vise versa. How many Wisconsin, Maine, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota, Kansas, Nebraska Cat dogs see or are put down on a 50 to 100 tracks a year? I know them Texans and Virginia and Florida guys run a pile so they are put in the same boat as a lot of the NW guys who have CAT DOGS....

Merlo so with your pack of hounds you catch or tree 90 percent of what you turn out on ??? And what other states have you Bobcat hunted these hounds in ?

[Guest]

Don't cat population densities have to play a major role? If the truck is jumping cats out of the road you and you dump 10 hounds you should catch?
I may check 50 to 100miles of good cat country and not find a 25pounder for 3 days. Free casting to good swamps will produce a chase, but stretching a 14 pounder is not where I am at. Your percentages are similar, I think less than 10% tree,30% make it to the rocks, and20% have to pull dogs for restricted areas. Yes, large Tom's that hole on me are harvested by setting up on rock piles.
For argument sake, if only 5 out of 50 tree, who cares if your cross will locate and tree, the number is likely within the margin of error. Although our season is long with no bag limits, it overlaps deer season and is restricted by conditions. Can't burn your dogs feet of on crust. Glare ice will not stop a chase but will allow cat to much room . 20 good days a season is a lot. That being said a straight strictly catdog is impractical. These hounds must perform on bear and or coyote. Tree power for bear becomes high priority locating is seemingly simple. Our cats rarely tree in large evergreen stands, more likely a lone pine in a brush choked Creek bottom and often a 6 to10inch diameter elm. Slicks are rare as a dog that hangs up on a bald tree ( no foilage) don't last. In summary my tree dogs smash a pile of coyote,tree me a bear or two everyday I can get out,10 weekends per training season and catch me the cats worth catching. I do keep one or two off coyote so I can confidently cold trail and cast the cats.last but not least I will be crossing trig to my plott.



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