BigGameHoundsmen.com

Just go hunt with the man and the hound he has for sale!

May take a few days or not? BUT, look at this hunting conditions(compare with your home turf), his style of hunting(rigging, roading, free casting, mule back, etc.), check out sellers hounds and how many does he have to sell, does he train to does he buy/sell? No problem if he does, but check how long has he had hound and then hunt hound with Garmin and see what that hound is actually doing?

With Garmin Alpha, not sure how you cannot see about any hound--the good or bad.

Have stated in prior posts--Garmin Alpha tells about all of hounds performance. Sure takes guess work out of what a hound is or is not getting done.

Thanks for reading,

Clyde

You guys that think going and hunting with the seller is the fail- safe method are mistaken.

There are people so good at selling, they know if they can get you on their turf, you are going home with a hound. There are people who have spent their lives studying human behavior for the sole purpose of being able to sell things. And they are extremely good at it.

There are people so good at selling dogs, you can hunt and run and hunt and run and hunt some more with the mans best dogs, and never see a bobcat caught or treed, and you are still going home with a high priced hound or two.

And if you want to come hunt with me, and you want the Garmin to show Sassy where spook always runs, then I can put sassys collar on spook.

And if that doesn't work, I can program the garmin to put whatever dog I want ahead of the pack on the screen. So whatever dog you want to beleive is going to solve your problems, I can prove to you with electronics that he absolutely will.
If you don't beleive me, come hunting with me. You can tell me which dog you want in the lead, and then you can watch me program the alpha to put him there.

You guys buying cat dogs, most of you are buying the dog that is going to catch you some cats, either tree them, or catch them on the ground for you. You want to use him to help you train pups to do just that. If you are buying them from areas where people fox hunt their cats; that dog has never been hunted alone. If you asked people from these regions to hunt the dog alone for you, the request would make no sense to them, and they might even feel insulted by it. They don't hunt dogs alone. Many of them have never caught a cat with a solo dog, and don't even beleive it can be done.

9-14 dogs is kind of a ballpark number of dogs in the packs I am speaking of. It can be double that when folks get together.

I am not being negative about it. The fox hunting style of bobcat hunting is a wonderful experience, and I know why it has lasted for so many generations.

But you guys buying your bobcat catching individual need to realize that if you pay big money for a dog that has been gathered up to mass market from these areas, you are buying a dog that has never been hunted alone, has never caught a bobcat by itself, and if you asked his original owner if the dog could catch a bobcat by itself, he would probably just look at you like you were from some other planet. And in a figurative way, you are.

I am going to make some suggestions to you guys in the market for a bobcat dog. First of all, you have to get yourself neutral. When you travel to try a bobcat dog, you have to forget about the cost of travel and everything else. Salesmen know how to work motivated buyers, and if you are motivated, a good salesman will be sending you home with a dog no matter what you actually experience on the hunt.

Get neutral. Or even better get negative to compensate for your inability to get neutral. Go there to check this guy out; figure this guy out; and how in tarnation he is selling high priced dogs to people who did not see the dog do anything and will probably NEVER experience that dog treeing them a bobcat, unless she can pack with dogs that will.

Then, promise me if you hunt and hunt with the guys best dogs, and your prospect thrown in, and you never get an opportunity to take a photo of a bobcat caught on the ground or in a tree; PROMISE ME YOU WILL NOT BUY THAT DOG.

And then, if you do catch a bobcat you can take a photo of by using his best dogs, then take his pack to his home, and go out with the dog you want to buy alone. Unless you are wanting to hunt the fox hunt style of bobcat hunting. And if you are, you need to get ahold of Perk on here, because you should be paying fox hound prices for that type dog, and not solo bobcat dog prices.

You need to know if the dog will rig his own cat alone, if he is being sold as a rig dog. You need to know if the dog will hunt up and find a track, and start working it on its own if it is being sold as a dog that can do that. You need to know if the dog can trail a cat without relying on another dog to keep the track alive.
If the dog is being sold for the price of a dog that can catch a bobcat, then you need to stay and hunt with the dog until you see him do it. If he is priced as a tree dog, then you need to know the dog will hold tree until you get there.
And I realize no dog catches every cat. That is why, if you are going to spend that kind of money, you need to plan on staying until the dog can demonstrate he is worth that much money.

And realize there will be no way for you to know that solo dog is actually striking and trailing a bobcat and not something else, unless you see it, he catches it, or unless you bring your own check dog to check him on the strike.

If the dog can not DEMONSTRATE he is worth the price. THEN,For pity sake, DON'T BUY HIM.

Go home without him, just like you were planning to do in the first place.

I am sorry the world is as it is. Protect yourself. In this situation, no one else can really do it for you.

David you really summed it up!!!Those people that are buying or want to buy a bobcat hound Read it over and over so it soaks in your hard headed hound BRAIN!!! Then if you F up it's your fault ! Number one thing make that hound show you some fur. Either by getting a trial on the hound or by hunting him with the owner .There are a lot of good hunters with some very nice hounds and to tell you the truth they are not for sale! Finding that broke bobcat hound to build your pack around Is very difficult.Yes !! There are some Houndsman that don't have a clue about good hounds but can talk like a hero to a and unexperienced person so do your homework....Timothy Morgan

Gosh guys I'll never be able to sell a hound now for top dollar lol. Thanks a lot. But I do agree with most of what is said by David. What do you price a dog that is weak at one thing but is a star at the rest of the game?

There is also the guy that can buy a good broke cat dog and not give the dog the right opportunity to accelerate!!! So believe it or not it can be a two way street! Andy

merlo_105 wrote:Gosh guys I'll never be able to sell a hound now for top dollar lol. Thanks a lot. But I do agree with most of what is said by David. What do you price a dog that is weak at one thing but is a star at the rest of the game?

I have never had a bobcat dog that was a star in every aspect. I don't know if I have ever even hunted with one. Might have, but did not know the dog well enough in every situation to say for sure.

Tanner said, a dog is worth what a buyer will pay for it. I have no problem with that if the buyer truely understands exactly what he is buying, and for example, understands that one weak spot.

Another freind once told me a "good deal" is when both buyer and seller end up very happy about the deal. He did not beleive in getting the most he could get for a dog. He believed in trying to find that middle ground where he got enough to make him happy and the buyer is elated over getting such a good deal.

I never forgot that. When I sell something, and even when I buy something from someone, I try to practice the "good deal", and, when it works, It makes for happy people.

I am wondering at this point is a single do it all bobcat dog really worth the work? There's always variables. But I would have to say for anyone not making decent returns on fur or who has money to burn it probably isn't. Maybe I'm reading this whole thing wrong. And granted some areas have better starting conditions or cat numbers or terrain or what ever. But honestly I've never sold a finished strike to catch bobcat dog who had next to no weaknesses. And the reason is simple no one is willing to pay what I would want for that dog. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places. But the fastest I've ever seem a dog reach that level here was right under three years old. And while she was very talented she also ran with good dogs and was hunted four or more days a week. If I wanted to sell that dog and not feel cheated it would be $12-$15000. And no one is going to pay that. So the simple solution is don't sell the dog. There's just a huge difference between dogs that you expect to catch what they open on alone and dogs that will open and work the track but may need some help to push through and finish it. And this is where I will ruffle feathers but snow is help in most cases. But so is flat terrain. Or even just a older dog that either doesn't miss a track or trees good or whatever it is the other dog isn't great at. I'll sell a started dog for the kind of prices some guys are talking And it will catch it's own cat in some situations but it's not a complete dog. And sure you could put a Garmin on it and it would be right there with the finished hound looking good. But pull that other dog and the number of cats is going to drop way down. And for me this is where you have to buckle down and let that dog make mistakes. On lion I can loose the track and maybe still bring another dog in to fix it and show the pup where to look next time. But on bobcat that just so rarely works I just have to hope they learn on their own.
So a whole pack of partial dogs is just so much easier to get rolling and catching then a single complete hound or pair. And that's not saying it's a simple thing. But compared to the effort and luck required to take one pup and turn it into a complete dog it is easier.

pegleg, I wouldn't say for sure NO ONE is going to pay that 15,000. There are people who have paid more for a single bobcat dog.

But it is extremely rare that a rich man has been that motivated to buy a bobcat dog.

I'm not sure I'm even qualified to comment on cat dogs but cat hunting in general is so regionally different that it might as well be a different animal all together. You could take top cat catchers on the coast or south and bring them hunt with a top midwest cat catcher and those guys would be just baffled how we generally do it. And it'd be the same if the roles were reversed. It's just all different, so expectations for a cat dog are going to vary.

However with that said, when you are in the market to buy a top dog be forewarned that you have just opened yourself up or invited the snakes in. It's kind of like the saying of how do you not lose at the casino. Don't walk in the front door. Same deal with dogs bet what you can afford to lose. A new hunter looking for a top dog is like a sitting down at the poker table with a bunch of pros what are the odds that the newbie comes out the winner. Not likely.

I've yet to see a perfect dog. Seems everyone else has a couple but I don't. Most of the best dogs I've seen were never complete dogs and never up for sale. And if they were ever sold, someone who had hunted with them scooped them up before they got too far away. Or someone offered up a crazy amount to have them when they weren't for sale.

Bottom line is good dogs aren't cheap. You either mold them and pay with your time and frustration. But you know ins and outs. Or you lay out a lot of money and dodge the dog jockeys. But that strategy is short lived and soon you're looking for the next ones.

My other advice is hunt what you've got and try to get better cheaply. Don't fall into the 1 dog away syndrome because it'll never end. It's kind of like you always want a boat that is 2 feet bigger.

Well maybe someone is willing to but your hound. But the real question is why would you sell it? After the time put into it you actually get more then that out of the dog over the next few years. And no one that's in the sport for money alone is likely to end up with that type of hound in the first place.
However those type hounds will pull most other hounds up a level or two over what they would have been otherwise. Buying pups is probably the best bet for most anyone willing to work with it and when you don't have the time to do that you just really are risking your money buying any dog. Because even the best hound just may not work with some people to it's potential and most guys have a notion of what a good dog does besides catch game.

I wonder if David has an opinion about this thread

scrubrunner wrote:I wonder if David has an opinion about this thread

Hahah. Always one in the crowd.

You can tell I am gearing up for a cat dog marketing scheme.

I didn't want to mention that right away. I needed some time to grease up the audience.
Then I just accidentally mention how I might sell a dog once in awhile.

Since that part is out, here's the deal:

You can watch the Garmin screen on your cell phone at home. You pick out the dog you want to buy according to his name on the screen. You pay me the $15,000. Then any time you want to go hunting with your dog, you just pull out your phone, and there you are: huntin' with Sassy. And for an extra 5 grand, I can promise your new Sassy dog will be in the lead at least 70% of the time.

Don't go asking too many questions like "where did the dog come from?" And "how did you end up with that man's dog?" And "how much did you pay for it?" Or, "who are you selling this dog for?" And "Why doesn't he sell his own dog?"

And "what is it that the dogs are actually running?" Don't worry, It is a bobcat. A really fast one. Hard to get him to climb. I am sure glad the Garmin doesn't show a picture of him, I MEAN, sure wish the Garmin would show that old tricky bobcat, and we are working on that.

Keep your eyes on the Garmin like your grampa did. You can be great like he was.

Having a hard time not jumping in here David (like several others) but you are doing alright by yourself lol

David, I was working out a marketing strategy in my head but you beat me to it and far exceeded my plan! With your plan you can even sell the dog to more than one person! Now I guess I'm back to, I just got this dog and don't know anything about it but the man I got it from told me ---.(whatever it was you told me you wanted).

It's actually quite clear what David is saying.