BigGameHoundsmen.com

Guys if you have access to a Model 94 30-30 or a Marlin 336 or some other vintage gun like that with iron sights take it out in the hills and have a little fun you might be surprized.

I was setting off a county road one day woth a couple of guys and they were both good hunters. They were shooting at some rocks on a hill side about 300 yards away. They were busting rocks and having fun. One was shooting a 7mm STW and the other a 300 Ultra Mag. Both guns wore large Leopold Scopes that went to 18 power. I had my old 30-30 laying in my truck becasue I had been riding with the dogs and was pulling my trailer. The old carbine is just a natural as it fits so well in a saddle scabbard and is more than enough gun for treed lion or bear. I got it out and said here you guys try for one of those rock with this. They both laughed and said we will have to hold way over them to get it there. I said just take a rest and put the bead at 6: o'clock on the rock and then add some stem of the front sight into the notch because it is sighted to be a little high at 100 yards. The first guy tried it and he actually shot over his rock about a foot. He tried again and hit the rock . He handed it to his friend and said dang this thing shoots pretty good try it. The other guy hit slightly low and to the left the first shot and the second just a hair over and the third he nailed it. I said most of those shots if not all of them would have hit a broadside deer in the chest, and definatly would have hit an elk. I said it is just knowing where to hold it. Surely it doesn't have the steam their gun had when it got out there but it still would deliver a leathal blow with a heart lung shot. In reality if you are much of a hunter and spend a good deal of time in the outdoors and have a pretty good knowledge of game animals and their habits you shouldn't have to do a lot of game shooting over 300 yards. Most of it will be half of that and a 30-30 can handle a lot of that and a 30-06 takes it in stride. Occasionally in trophy hunting you may be forced to take that long shot or go home and forfiet your tag, and that is why I carry a little more gun when trophy elk hunting.

My old 06 with a Barnes would likely do all I ever needed, but if I have to take a poke at my dream 400 bull just disappearing into the dark timber and have to break some heavy bone and maybe go thru some paunch to reach those vitals my 338 Win. Mag or my wonderful 358 Norma Mag. are both comforting. They both shoot extreemly well with Barnes Triple Shock bullets and those big dudes just keep on plowing. For those not familiar with the 358 Norma Mag. it is basically a 338 Win. Case necked up to 35 caliber. In terms of power this gun comes very close to matching the power of the vaunted 375 H&H mag. and has a flatter trajectory.But heck 5 or the last 10 elk I killed were with the 30-30 just becasue it was hanging there on the side of that horse when things went down.

yeah mike, bet the old "dirty" 30 has put down as much or more game than anything. LOL. i love em. my serious killing rifle is a scoped .308 ruger mountain rifle works good. but been trying the open sites the last couple years, my marlin 336 does allright and am really fond of my old m1garand .06.

I have shot alot of those Ack Impr rounds and I'm not real impressed with'em, a friend has a .223AI and my 223 WSSM out preforms it by a mile. But if I cant kill it with my M40 there's somthing wrong, but like Mike said you have to be comfortable with your rifle and know your rifle, to be able to shot your rifle and be confedent in your shot placement. But you dont need these great big hand cannons to shoot 1000 yds, I shoot 1000 yd matchs here alot and I shoot a 1000 yds everyday. It's nice to have the extra horse power when you get out to those ranges but you dont need it, my 338 Lapua has all the horse power you'll ever need, but I would still rather shoot my 308 out to 1000 yds anything past that I will shoot my 338 Lapua. I like the 308 because it is still the most predictable 30 cal still to this day, It's predictable in the wind and from 50 yrds to 1000 yds any thing past that you'd better have alot of adjustment in your optics. So with that said my favorite rifle is my M40A4 w/20" #7 Shilen match barel w/1@10 rate of twist, McMillan A4 stock, Jewel match Triger and Rem 40X action with a Leoupold Mark 4 fixed 10X, I also have a 308 built off the SP100 action with all of the same stuff, I load mostly Sierra MatchKing 150 Gr to 163 Gr w/ 62 Gr of H380 and 64 Gr of H414 I tried the Win748 but I dont like it.

Three Rivers<

You speak the lingo and I reckon you can shoot.

Tell me what you have on the 41 magnum.

And then maybe come hunt a longtail, when you get time.

Yep, and I was thinkin'...even though they make a rifle that can wack an Al Queada at a couple miles (every home should have one...Gov.'t issue) there is something powerful, about slipping up real close and personal, and turning the lights out while they are bedded down.

But if we could have two favorite rifles, one for huntin' and one for shootin', that would be a hard call. For my huntin' gun, definately the previously mentioned .338 Ruger #1 "Custom Timber Carbine". As strictly a shootin' gun, I would go with a Max Load... something that would make the anti's quiver.

That reminds me of a story that Jack O'Connor wrote and then Jim Carmicheal expounded on, about a two gun battery...but that was for hunting...and 30 yrs ago...

Times have changed.

Three rivers,

Have you tried the berger bullets. Thats all we shoot, higher BC with the same grane bullet. They also do a damn good job on game, Just curious.

Shorty
Thought you fell in a hole. Phil called me and said that you and the family were in CA. I think he was lonely for he talked nearly an hour will driving down the road. You and the crew best get back home...not sure we can trust the two of them together all alone.
Adios,
Gary

My killin bullets are Hornady 165 Gr A-Max and Nosler E-Tips< I've tryied the other bullets out there and those seem to be the best shootin out of my rifles, The one I have yet to try is the Lapua Scinnaor Low Drag Molly coated boat tail (I dont know if I'm this is spelt right) I like the BC on them though of .296. And as for the .41 Rem, I had one a few years ago, I was useing it as my side arm for pigs, I was shooting factory rounds out of it, and it did the job just fine, the only thing it lacks from a 44 Rem Mag is the Volocity, and thats were I didnt like it, on the shots that happened real fast when dogs were gettin eatup, kill shots non the less but not enough unph to sit one on its butt and make'em know they were diein, Head shots were just fine, opened'em up like a pumpkin, it was just the shots at Big boars with big guard on a broad side shot I didn't like it for. I think it would make a great tree game cartridge, if placed right I think it'll kill just about anything, but I traded mine for a Super Red hawk 44 Mag, but I hardly shot that one too, my meat gun is my Marlin 1895G Guide gun W/18" barrel, easy to pack around, great in the saddle and I can load it for just about any type game, hell I would feel comfortable in Africa with it, loaded with a 405 Gr Speer semi-jacketed Flatnose or a 325 gr Hornady FTX.

TRC,

Good info. I guess what you are saying the 41 magnum has too much velocity for some of these shots. Possibly opens up to fast with expanding bullets? It definatly offers a velocity advantage if loaded properly and hot. Some loads chronographed out of a 7 1/2" barrell with 180 gr. bullets and stout loads of H-110 push the 2000 FPS mark. Althought they are listed at 1850FPS some have even beat that mark. This might be a good deer load if you were having to stretch it a bit. I know elmer keith tried the first pair of 41's that rolled out of Smith and Wesson and with his hard cast 215 gr, bullets and a healthy dose of 2400 powder he said it shot a good deal flatter than his 44 magnum similarly loaded. I once shot a big tom lion with 210 Winchester silver tips. I whacked him three times and he jumped out and ran 20 feet and fell over. Skinning him I was amazed to find a ll three under the hide on the off side expanded to .75 caliber. I guess that big cavity just opened them right up. Certainly would be wicked on a person but on a bear or big hog that might not get into the plumbing. I think I would stick with a hard cast and a little slower velicity maybe around 1100, they will darn sure penetrate at close range.

For pigs I like the heavy slower moveing bullets, big bullet big hurt, but for the most part I dont even carry my pistols anymore, I pack that guide gun around loaded with the Speer 405 gr Semi jacketed Flat Nose for pigs but for Bear I load the 325 gr Hornady FTX both are backed by IMR4198 and CCI Magnum Rifle primers. I was just looking up the 475 Turnbull, that sucker pumps out a 500 gr Barnes Monolithic Solid at 1900 fps w/4,198 ft/lbs at the muzzle and 3280@100 yds the 350 gr bullet is gettin out there at 2300 fps and hittin @ 100 yds with 3064 ft/lbs, thats a bad mama jama. But I think the next one I build is gonna be chambered in the 408 CheyTac or the 416 Barrett. I like the ballistics of the Turnbull but it dont out preform the 45-70 by all that much at close range and at $275.00 for a set of dies and $90.00 for 20 empty brass I think I'll pass. I want another long range rifle one that will out preform my 338, although they are makein that 338 Extreme, the Lapua's mother cartridge is the 416 Rigby, the 338 Extreme is based off the 505 Gibbs. But a 50 BMG with a solid brass Lathe turned 760 gr bullet with a B.C. of .996 is hard to beat. But those bullets are $65.00 each

Here is a load I have seen some un-real penetration out of. In my Ruger Stainless Black Hawk 4-5/8". It's a stout load and not for the faint of heart but it will get inside and cut a hole thru most anything.I finished off a wounded bull elk with it and it broke a shoulder went on thru and may still be going.I don't think I would recommned it for hog fights or bayed bear becasue you could shoot thru and kill a hound.



45 Long Colt Buffalo Bore 325 Gr. LBT-LFN at 1325 FPS

Damn Mike, that things turbocharged...what's the muzzle energy on that thing?

With that big flat point and that heat treated buffalo bore bullet it is amazing. but the Casull will out do it by 150 FPS, and the 460 S&W my gosh a 360 Gr. at 1900 FPS.


I wouldn't advise a steady diet of these in a Ruger but they will handle it. The big Freedom Arms Casull takes it in stride.

Some of these bigger guns just get so bulky and heavy to carry but the Rugers are nice until you pull the trigger! LOL!

That 460 S&W is a bad dude, my best friend shoots one, it's only down fall is it's so big, but there isn't a hand gun cartridge that will out do it, the 500 S&W wont out preform it. I have tryed those Buffalo Bore rounds, they move, I shot them out of my 444 Marlin, 45-70 and my 44 Mag, but I like the Hornady LeverEvelution better, the bullet is hands down the best bullet for any job, that FTX bullet is a bad dude.

How is the penetration on that .45 LeverEvelution bullet TRC? I've got some ammo for my 450M, but not as of jet tried them.....

Anybody know of a loading for my 450M that will penetrate o' say 'bout a foot into a brown bear with a shot behind the shoulder, but that will also crush a shoulder if I need to put the shot there.
After seiing the kind of shit the brown bears bay up in, I need a loading that will drop a brown bear within the 6 feets of sight there seem to be, where they bay up, before it hits me and that wont go through and kill a hound.

Also anybody know of a open sight/ghostring system for a Marlin 1895, they would recomend. - Preferably from a online store that will ship to Norway.

Thanks,
Hans