Another bad dog deal.......

[Bluefloyd]

If I bought a fine china hutch from a local furniture shop that looked great in the package and got it home to fine it was missing pieces or broke, I would return it for a full refund (minus the gas and travel expense to and from the store).
Now if I thought that I have the means to fix this little hutch with some hardware or pieces that i have lying around in my shop, then that is my choice and I am happy with it.
All quality vendors should offer this service with a applicable time limit, and the choice be up to the buyer, that is customer service that will keep you coming back to the same vendor when you need something.
If a vendor would not refund me on a product that was defective for a agreed reason than its time to shop at a different store. And reflect my dealing with all my friends so they are aware of the store in questions policy.
Its just black and white business for me. Be a investigative consumer and a quality vendor and things should work out.
$300 is pup price. Anything sold at pup price is a gamble. $1500 is a well started/finished product price. There is a difference.
Sounds like you guys are working it out, good luck to both of you in your dealing.
Just my inflated 2 cents.

[Ryan]

Either she will come out of it, or she won't. I will give her away or spend more than i could have afforded on fertilizer. Probably be my first and last 1500 dollar dog either way. As far as it being easy to screw up a dog. She hasn't been beat, shocked, put with mean dogs or ran with trashy ones. If anything I did screwed her up It was a fault in the dog. PERIOD She has only been babied.

I have recieved PM's, and word from poser about these dogs adjusting to change and I think this line is mentally weak, sensitive to change, or squirrelly call it what you will. That doesn't mean once she is adjusted she won't make a fine dog. That also doesn't mean she will ever adjust. I had the dog three weeks and Poser offered to try and sell her for me. I didn't feel that was much time to give a pup at any price. As far as a gaurantee I don't think you can ask for a gaurantee an eight month old pup will make a bobcat dog..... but I didn't expect this. In a month or two she will be much better or gone.

I'm not sure why this was ever posted anyway, I get aggrivated enough whem I think about it. I have been having a terrible time getting dogs that suit me on bobcats. This one is slow, that one is a poor locator, this one doesn't cold trail well enough. That is why I tried to buy one with a leg up off to a "great" start. Not because I cant train one because I'm tired of putting two or three seasons in them and culling or giving them away.

[lsorenso]

I wasn't even gonna comment on this matter at all because most of us with any experience at all know that no dog is perfect and for heaven sake an 8 month old dog is not a trained dog in any matter of the word. The pup was as well started as they can be, I know I have a littermate, and I have hunted with the dog personally. The whole bunch did way more than any other pups I have seen at that age. Now, I will tell you my experience, for what its worth. For me, there is no harder animal for a dog to trail and catch than a damn bobcat. I have older dogs, and have hunted with some damn fine dogs that belong to some of the best hunters around that flat have a hell of a time starting a bobcat. They will, but you gotta walk em out and help them get going, this is in perfect conditions too. I think the mindset of our dogs is lion, a big track with alot of scent, and they flat smoke em. You dump them on a little bobcat that steps on every rock or stick it can find, and its tough. I also don't think the dogs wanna run em as much either. You cannot expect an 8 month old pup to hunt a bobcat especially if it hasn't hunted them. The pups were good at figuring out lions, and started very well. My pup is doing great, at least what I call great for a pup. Will she consistently trail and catch a lion, by herself, hell no. Will she go help and make it to trees, absolutely. Will she run deer, hell yeah as fast as she can. She ain't broke, she ain't finished, she is 9 months old and started. I consider this doing really good, she wants to go, she does go, and hunts whatever. Its my job to train her on what she should and shouldnt do. It takes time, a hell of a lot of time to make a finished dog that will catch their own game, and they need to see a hell of a lot of game too. If you are planning on this dog snapping out of this down time and next year being your top dog, dream on, it ain't gonna happen. Will she make a dog, yep, especially if you do your part.

[lsorenso]

I wasnt quite finished, but it wouldn't let me type anymore. I was starting to say that on top of everything else, you take the pup put her on a plane and drop her off in a totally different world. I have been to PA, and thats where she is, it is a whole different world than here in Central UT. She is with different dogs and different people that have different ways of hunting and different conditions. I think everyone is just wasting their breath, give her time and a chance she is a pup, period, thats all she is, not sold as a bobcat dog at all, so do your job and she will turn out. I guarantee not perfect but she will make a dog, she ain't mentally weak, she is a nice dog. Compare it to taking a two year old kid and shippin them away from what they know, to a different place with nobody they know. They will make it, but it will take a while.

[mefishme1234]

i have a 2 yr female plott.. she was a bear cull.. and very timid.. I got her for free. I have been working with her since oct.. She comes inside for supper with me and my bird dog and she is a different dog.. she is a wicke smart dog.. She is my first hound. I wanted to get her going on cats this winter but the weather sucked. so i decided to get on rabbits. I trapped some rabbits and but one in front of her and a buddy s beagle... she took right after that rabbit!! i wanted a hound and she is a great first hound.. I am not hard on my dogs, never hit them.. They listen great and come when i say come or whistle..

[Catman]

Good luck to both parties. Hope all goes well with the pup

[Ryan]

I never expected her to cold trail. She was with a dog that was doing the cold trailing. I was judging her on jumped cats. Thanks for the advice though.

[liontracker]

Ryan and Jason, once I kept a male and a female Cameron pup out of my best Cameron bitch and stud. This was the second time I had made this same cross so I knew what to expect out of the pups. At 6 months old I had them going very well and ready to catch their first lion. At this point I had made up my mind to keep the female. These were definately breeders choice material. A guy from back east was on my waiting list for a pup, so I sold him the male for pup price. He spent $400 on airfare. When he recieved the pup (50 pounds by now) he called and said the pup was acting very timid. I said it was strange because that pup had never been the least timid in it's whole 6 month life. So the guy waited and worked with this pup. This pup turned wild and could not be caught. It turned scared to death of people. After a few months it was obvious the pup would not recover and was culled. I felt terrible for selling this male pup, as I knew that if had had stayed with me, he would not have went through this " misadventure". I believe with every ounce of fiber in my body, that this pup was severely tramatized by the Airplane ride or what happened during shipment. I think the pup had a stroke or went nuts because of it. Will I ship by air again? Yes, it's still the fastest way to get a dog to my door and beats a dog hauler by a long shot.

This deal is no ones fault, just the result of bad circumstances that aligned at the right time to create a problem.

[LCK]

Poser,

Here is my take on it...... Speaking from experience here. I sold my 3 year old female Lola that was one of my rock solid dogs. I bred and raised and trained her and she was one of my lead dogs after her mother Sandy died. She had been on more lion, bobcat and coon than I could count. I sold her for a very good price for the dog she was. A couple of guys went in partner on her. I get an email that she is not hunting as she was for me. I assured the guy she would as she loved to hunt and I have had friends hunt her and have hunted her with other hounds outside of my own pack so I cannot see her not hunting. The guy that went in partnership with this other guy decided to take her and try her out and she hunted well for him. Sometimes dogs don't mesh with handlers and vice versa. Lola now hunts for the guy she didn't at first and she is one of his lead dogs... She came around eventually. This is not the first time this has happened and it wont be the last. I sent quite a few dogs I bought packing cause I didn't get along with them, but they worked for the people that got them from me. They are not machines, they all have their own personalities and hunting styles. If the guy has given her a fair shot and she is not working out for him and she showed potential for you, maybe they are just not a good mix and she needs to go to someone else.

I know the Lola dog and know what the guys had to do to get her hunting again. They started from the basics and pretty much had to "reboot" the computer. I know they are glad they did, as she is one of the finest most well balanced hounds I have ever seen go, and I have not been bashfull telling people that. If they had lost patience or got pissy about it, they would have for sure missed the boat on her. She is a nice hound.

My two cents on shipping dogs. I have flown dogs from all over the U.S and other country's. Puppy's, started dogs and fully trained dogs of all disciplines. I NEVER do a thing with any of those dogs for at least 3 weeks. They are put in a kennel and allowed to "soak" up their new surroundings before I ever take em out and start with them. Dogs of all breeds are animals of pattern and timming. Once those patterns and timmings are thrown off it can and does throw them off, sometimes completely.
Put the dog up for a good while and let it simmer on the new deal for a while.
$1,500 for a started dog is peanuts compared to what has been spent on "started" dogs of other breeds and disciplines. Hell I have given more than that for unborn pups LOL.

[Ryan]

Well for those that were questioning posers integrity, he called with a friend that offered to buy the dog back and pay the shipping. For those questioning my sanity I declined. I'm gonna keep her and work with her. She is from a good line and is really acting friendly around the house. She seems to be getting over the culture shock.

The seller did more than he said he would and the the buyer is satisfied. So as long as this thread is called bad dog deal, its over.

[Dan Edwards]

Semper Fi, Ryan!


Oh ya, one more thing. You are a way better man than I am cause if poser did that to me, I'd fly all the way out to wherever the hell he lives and................................................................................................................................drink all his damn beer.

[poser]

Ryan, i REALLY hope that things turn around with Dixie and she makes a dog for you. Time will tell i guess.

Dan, you are welcome to come and visit me in Utah anytime, you will have to bring your own beer though, i don't have any.

As for those questioning my integrity dont doubt yourselves yet....There is no way that i would have been able to offer Ryan the money for the dog let alone pay to have her shipped back here. I am just fortunate to have friends that contacted me about buying her and having me hunt her and see if we couldn't get her back to where she was. Unfortunatelly, we will never know the answer to that question.

Bruce, I really appreciate the offer and you going out of your way to try and help.

Thanks, Jason

[Dan Edwards]

Damn it, I knew there was a catch to this whole deal.

I'd love to come out there and watch your dogs and ride through them mountains with yall someday. I even guess I could leave the beer alone for a few days to do so but its gonna hurt.