cold trail or jump?

[tstillwell]

This site is great reading and interesting. So what is the percentage of the cats you guys catch that get up and start moving out front of the dogs that i guess is considered a trail before it is jumped.

[twist]

I new it would get good. Andy

[mark]

Some dogs are content to smell cat tracks, some dogs aren't content until they are smelling cat ass. When you get one of the latter that use their mouth right they will catch a lot of those sneakers.

[jcathunter]

Some dogs are content to smell cat tracks, some dogs aren't content until they are smelling cat ass. When you get one of the latter that use their mouth right they will catch a lot of those sneakers.

Exactly, Mark!!! That does a pretty good job of explaining what I was going to post. I was going to post that a lot of what makes or breaks a cat dog, in my eyes, is what happens between the cold trail and the jump. Not the time they are cold trailing or the time they are running jumped(by the popular definition on here) but that span when the cat knows he's being pursued and is, as you put it, being a sneaker. I'm over here running trash now (bears) so I won't claim to have a dog worth a darn on bobcat but I really think that window is pretty critical in the success or lack thereof of a dog or pack of dogs. Some cats don't move and are easier for a dog that is lacking in that area and some dogs just seem to shine when you have the type you are describing, Mark. Hopefully, this is making sense because I'm sure doing a poor job of typing and explaining what I want to say. lol

[U.R.E.]

A jumped cat to me is one I just pushed out of a tree. Its a jumped cat and a caught cat.

[tstillwell]

So from the guys that catch 40 plus cats if a cat gets a good 500 yard sneak how many of those cats do you catch out of say ten times. I would like to know what to expect from my dogs.

[merlo_105]

Well I just got back in from running the dogs Zero cold trails Zero trail jobs and to much surprise Zero jumps ending in a long night of nothing. Tstillwell, just all depends are the cats overly dogged or you hunting at night? Some cats are smarter then others... Some learn where to go to avoid dogs... Jcat Im in the same boat im impressed with a dog that can trail up a hard dogged cat and put the heat to it. Them dogs shine to me. I have seen a lot of dogs that can cold trail well and others that are awesome on a tight jump but the one's that stand out are the one's that can keep with it and get under the cat.

[dwalton]

Cats that are ran a lot with dogs that can not push them, learn to get up and move ahead of the dogs. That said if the dogs that are running the track right cold or jump a cat can't be sneaking out ahead. Those type of races it is hard to tell the jump and the cat is usually caught on the ground. In adverse conditions, frozen ground, super cold [-10], dry a bobcat can stay ahead of some times. I have my dogs make loses on roads, on frozen snow or getting around bluffs letting the cat get ahead. Sometimes up to three jumps before getting to place that they catch it. I have run cats in lodge pole blow downs with a lot of young stuff that just keep staying ahead of the dogs. Waiting till it is coming at me turn dogs in head on will usually stop that. I will lose 1 to 3 cat a winter that get ahead and stay there. The dogs not being able to get back up on it. Every time a cat gets away from dogs he will pull that trick again be it in bluffs, a hole, roads or water. It gives me great pleasure to listen to a race like that it sure tells me who doing what. I just don't want to do it when I am hide hunting. I love to listen to a trail job, love to hear a good race but I hunt to catch bobcats and train young dogs. Harassing bobcats does not do the dogs any good, treeing them does. Dewey

[merlo_105]

True dwalton I agree with everything you said, but in a area like where I do 95% of my hunting where you have roads on top of roads its hard for a dog to stay under it. The other 5% of where I hunt there are less roads and the dogs can do better. Jmo

[scrubrunner]

All the cats here are dog wise. The woods are slap full of deer dogs for 3 months, a lot of which will run anything. Cats get away from them pretty easy but they don't forget how to do it. They get away here by going in and out of the water, most of the time have too re-jump cat several times befor he finally gets away.haha if the cat has a little distance on the dogs, loose a lot on the many sand roads but if they are under him and running it right he has to get out of that road fast. With out really good dogs can loose a lot after the cat is winded, he'll be in the thickest baddest briars he can find and start just ducking, dodging and squatting on an acre or two, fills the whole place up with scent and squats, won't move till a dog finds him will lay right there with dogs hunting him all around him, when he starts doing that your in the short rows, cat dogs should catch him, but not always, if he gets a little rest he'll slip out of there on ya hit a road and trot off, then you're back where you started. That's how it goes for me anyway.

[cobalt]

Scrubrunner, in your previous post, my comment was made more out of confusion more than anything. I think I know what you were trying to say, which apparently concurs with several other people, esp. running dog people.

I am not much of a cat hunter anymore and was never exclusive to that game which makes me reluctant to post much in the bobcat section. I only ever caught several hundred bobcats, but in the past few years have only gone out a handful of times for cat. However, there are certain times when I guess weakness gets the better of me when I read discrepancies that I feel need to be addressed for the benefit of ALL people that visit this forum for good info.
So there are a few differences in the definition of a jumped race. That's fine as long as that is understood and in fact, the more popular of definitions on this thread mean that the dogs I've had that performed well on bobcat were a hell of a lot better than I gave them credit for . As for the duration of a jumped race (scrubrunner definition), I think on average 1 to 15 minutes is about right in my experience. At this point it's all about locate. Having said that, and knowing I never had straight cat dogs, I have read and seen many videos where top cat hunters such as the Clays describe jumped races lasting much, much longer than 15 minutes and it wasn't rare. I've also heard and read the same thing of cats in the upper Midwest. So maybe this theory applies only to the western US and other select US locations, although I think from N. Oregon and Washington coast country the odds drop (just a guess). I think hide hunters hunt areas where there is a much higher probability of catch and I also believe that if you throw 5 to 10 descent cat dogs on a track, cats become easier to catch, yet feed bills go way up along with divorce rates.
Another reality that I've experienced is the no-jump races. I've have recollection of many trees that went from "trailing" tracks to a long lose, then tree. The cat never jumped, just heard dogs coming and climbed. This phenomenon I've seen personally with cats, lions and bear. Again, It's all about locate. Years ago I turned 1 dog out on a lion. The dog left and awhile later was out of hearing. Standing at my truck, listening to the beeper box, I caught a glimpse of movement down the road. It was a lion. It stopped just shy of the road, checked for traffic, then loped across the road, down into a timbered gully and was gone. My beeper box started getting louder, but my dog was still not within hearing. several minutes later I heard him coming, opening about as much as he was when he left out. Maybe 5 minutes later, my dog crossed the road on the track of the lion I saw. Down in the gully he went and then nothing. For several minutes I waited for that trailing track to continue, but it didn't. My dogs next bark was a locate bark and then he settled in. Pissed off something had gone wrong, I went down in the gully and found Bud locked down on a 100 ft. red fir tree. Up there about 80ft was the lion. It treed with virtually no pressure. Go figure. I've visually seen at least 2 bobcat do the same thing. This past summer I got a good bear strike and turned 2 dogs out. They went 150 yrds, opened but never lit out. After several minutes of confusion for me, I turned the last dog out. After another couple minutes, the last dog started treeing. I figured a false tree (you know how blueticks are), but to my surprise, a little bear was there, way up there. It had climbed when I struck or shortly after.
Dewey, you mentioned something about dogs running a jumped bear off the track by many yards and good cat dogs do that. That's funny to me because with as poor a class of cat dog as I have or had, I've seen that "phenomenon" in all my dogs to the point when I'm looking for the critter they are running in amongst the dog tracks only to find nothing. The cat track was there, just 10 or more yards away. I think there are lots of dogs that do that because that is where the scent is. As they close in, I think it tightens up. It's an air movement thing I guess .
Lastly, I want to commend jcathunter because I believe a lot of what you believe and you put things down in a rational, well thought out way. And I also believe most hound guys and gals can relate and aspire to your style of hunting.

Oh, one more thing. Willie, if all you're going to bring to the table is a fork and an appetite for antagonism and negativity, then expect the same in return . You've gone from slowandeasy to loudandobnoxious.

[Big N' Blue]

Hey guys, till you have hunted in many different terrains and many different styles of dogs, lets not be so judgmental. IMHO. This is not a contest, it is a learning experience.

[dhostetler]

Almost every subject people are saying how to have top notch bobcat dogs you need straight bobcat dogs. My goal is to proof people wrong on that. There is no reason you can't have the best bear dog and bobcat dog in the country all in one dog. The 2 pictured are what I am hoping will make the cut. The picture was taken last summer when they caught there own bear at 11 months and 9 months old. They ran it 6 miles, 4 miles was cold trailing. Our bobcat season opens in 9 days, I may be extremely disappointed with those two we will see.

[merlo_105]

dhostetler, I hope you the best and keep us posted on how the outcome is. A guy I hunted with and still do would always preached to me you need Walkers in our country to catch game, So of coarse I had to go the opposite way just to see for myself. I caught cats with Blue ticks, redbones, and others. Funny how some people wont or cant see the light that there are other things possible. Best dog I own is a 34# Bluetick female.