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Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:07 am
by larry
BIG TRACK wrote:i was under the impression PLOTTS originated from a lab pitbull cross?

if the PLOTT is such a bad ass put emm up shut emm up bear eating machine. i would keep them a secret and i sure as hell wouldnt be trying to pass the breed onto my competition?
i wish i could find a PLOTT breeder that has some of these put emm up shut emm up bear eatin machines because iam dam tired of culling all these PLOTT pups :evil:

BIG TRACK


lab pitbull, seriously? Glad you do your homework :roll:

There ya go Catch, time to put up or shut up :lol: :lol:

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:56 am
by Jake Bell
damn a lab and pitbull, lol thats actually funny. but on a serious note, catch man you need to take a breather, im a plott guy like you but honestly there are lots of bear dogs in other breeds, i know of an oustanding pack of walkers, and another outstanding mix bred pack which has collie in it, i run plotts because thats what i started with, thats what im having luck with and they work for me, but you cant say there is no such thing outside the plott breed, thats just like saying the world is still flat. your giving plott owners a bad rep from all your bad mouthing, maybe you should just worry about number 1 until you know what YOU have and then worry about what everybody else has, and instead of pissing them off help them out if they need it.

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:15 am
by Catch
Well there you have it guys, Collie the next Big Game Dog!


Jake just a quick question. Now, if you know of these great bear dog packs that are not Plotts. Why are you running Plotts. I mean, we all are out there in search of the best, so have you just settled for second best?

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:35 am
by chilcotin hillbilly
Catch wrote:Well there you have it guys, Collie the next Big Game Dog!


Jake just a quick question. Now, if you know of these great bear dog packs that are not Plotts. Why are you running Plotts. I mean, we all are out there in search of the best, so have you just settled for second best?


Catch ,you would be surprised what a collie cross will do , Alot of speed , more smarts and an incredible ability to heel a bear. In my neck of the woods ,collies have treed more cats and bears then all the hounds combined. Every cowboy has a collie that trees bears on its own, most don't have more then one dog. Its guys like you who give the plott guys a bad name.

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:25 am
by PLOTT88
I agree with Catch, why settle. Also have a little pride. I am a proud plott owner I know what works for me. They could have asked what the best brand of vehicle for hound hunting and you would be hearing the same different opinions. Everybody has a right to their own. Be proud of what you believe is right and do not back down and do not settle. If your not proud of what you have do something about because your not being fair to your self or your pack.

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:38 am
by bigdog061
O.K. guys......I don't know why I try explaining this all the time, but I will anyhow! I feel sorry for folks that can't think outside the box I grew up hunting with a breed called Hienz 57 and crossbreed hounds. To this day it blows my mind how so many people are stuck on registered "breed" of dog!!!!!! If I had 2 litters of pups for sale, 1 is registered and the parents absolutely suck. and the other litter is out of mixed breed dogs, but the parents are absolutely game catchers, the registered litter will sell 10 times faster!!!!!! As a matter of fact, probably have hard time giving mixed pups away!!!! Why is that?????????????

I'll tell you what I think/know!!!!!!!! theres no "MONEY" in mixed pups/dogs!! Some say they won't throw good pups..... thats "BS"

The breed of dog means nothing.........the Breeder means everything!!!!!! You rob yourself of so much knowledge when your not openminded.......

All breeds are mixed up anyways......yes, all of them!!!!!!! Read the history of your favorite breed!!!!!!!!

Paul

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:23 am
by Ike
bigdog061 wrote: All breeds are mixed up anyways......yes, all of them!!!!!!! Read the history of your favorite breed!!!!!!!!

Paul


Ain't that the truth! Papered hounds or dogs, no matter what their color, were dogs that were bred to color to develop that color. In fact, some of the off colored dogs that didn't met the standard color may have been culled even though they may well have turned out to be better hunters. A good hunter breeding crossbred hounds over time can and will produce as good a quality hound as any UKC papered dog that ever lived............

Ike :wink:

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:38 am
by Dan Edwards
Plotts dont have foxhound in them? Wonder what happened to all the old Sugarloaf July dogs then? I would love to find a good collie cross and use it on coyotes cause I seen some cur crosses on yotes that were a hell of alot better than any damn running hound I have ever seen.

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:26 pm
by reed
Big Track I would like to know what breeders you have gotten Plotts from that they are all culls?

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:22 pm
by Jake Bell
well catch i dont own any of them because i dont see the point in driving 2 days to get good dogs when there are good dogs down the road, which just so happen to be plotts, they are working great for me so why would i stop a thing thats working? im a pretty proud plott guy but c'mon man they arent the only "REAL" bear dogs out there, i just seem to have good luck with them. but you know what if they bring pups up with them when they are hunting up here this fall, i wouldnt think twice about buying a pup off them, hell atleast i know they actually hunt and not bitch about everyone else on the internet instead of taking a deep look at themselves. you kind of remind me of them mouthy guys at parties, no matter how big and strong you are, youl always go home with a bloody nose because theres always tougher guys around.

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:49 pm
by Catch
Jake Bell wrote:well catch i dont own any of them because i dont see the point in driving 2 days to get good dogs when there are good dogs down the road, which just so happen to be plotts, they are working great for me so why would i stop a thing thats working? im a pretty proud plott guy but c'mon man they arent the only "REAL" bear dogs out there, i just seem to have good luck with them. but you know what if they bring pups up with them when they are hunting up here this fall, i wouldnt think twice about buying a pup off them, hell atleast i know they actually hunt and not bitch about everyone else on the internet instead of taking a deep look at themselves. you kind of remind me of them mouthy guys at parties, no matter how big and strong you are, youl always go home with a bloody nose because theres always tougher guys around.



Well you answered my question just like I thought you would.
Thank You!


Oh, by the way, I don't go to parties, but if I did I doubt I would find to many guys that would bloody my nose!

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:54 pm
by Catch
Dan Edwards wrote:Plotts dont have foxhound in them? Wonder what happened to all the old Sugarloaf July dogs then? I would love to find a good collie cross and use it on coyotes cause I seen some cur crosses on yotes that were a hell of alot better than any damn running hound I have ever seen.



From UKC:
Of the seven breeds of UKC registered Coonhounds, the Plott Hound and the American Leopard Hound do not trace their ancestry to the foxhound. And, of those seven breeds, we can be most certain of the Plott’s heritage and the men most responsible for its development.

Some More About Plott's:

Great Plott!
The toughest dog on the planet makes its debut at Westminster.
By Richard B. Woodward
Posted Tuesday, Feb. 12, 2008, at 2:02 PM ET


The Plott hound, one of four breeds making its debut on the green carpet this week at the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show, is unlikely to melt the hearts of television viewers. In pose-offs against bassets and dachshunds, two of its cuddlier rivals in the hound group, it will be hard for the high-strung animals to look anything but ill at ease. Weighing 50 to 60 pounds, with a homely mien, a thin, brindled coat, and a sinewy profile, they aren't noticeably prepossessing o! r much good as indoor pets.

But those who can appreciate a more rural, less homogenized America should be rooting for the Plotts whenever they step into the ring. One of only a handful of breeds recognized by the American Kennel Club as having its origins in this country, the Plott hound has been the state dog of North Carolina since 1988 and a common sight for more than a century in eastern Tennessee, where, by one owner's estimate, "about every third dog tied up back of someone's house is a Plott."

Unless you've hunted black bear or wild boar, or you've spent a lot of time in the Smoky Mountains, you've probably never heard of, much less encountered, a Plott hound. Not withstanding the newfound respectability afforded Plotts by the Westminster initiation, dog encyclopedias seldom give the breed much ink.

Its reputation for courage and stamina, however, is anything but regional. Outdoorsmen from as far away as Africa and Japan hold the Plott in near-mystical esteem as perhaps the world's toughest dog. Bred to track, run! down, tree, and, if necessary, grapple with a baying 500-pound bear eight times its size, it is often overmatched but rarely chastened by that fact. Inspect the coat of one that has worked in the woods for a year or more, and you will likely find slash marks from a bear's claws or a hog's tusks. Plotts routinely will stay on game, alone or in packs, for days at a time. Willing to sacrifice themselves before they'll run from a showdown, they are the ninja warriors of dogdom. By comparison, the beagle is a layabout, and the pit bull a pansy.

Writer Cormac McCarthy first told me about the breed. He has hunted with them in Canada, and some 20 years ago he attended the annual Plott Days festival with his brother. This celebration is now a family-friendly affair held in the Midwest. But back then, the event was in the Carolinas and semi-illegal, as the organizers tested the dogs in various controversial ways, most notoriously in the Elizabethan rite of bearbaiting! .

"It wasn't particularly gory," McCarthy recalled. Although he estimates that some 300 Plotts hurled themselves at a staked bear over the course of a day, the result was that "the bear got chewed on a bit, and the dogs got cuffed around." His admiration for the breed is expressed in a terse judgment: "They are just without fear."

The cult of the dog is best sampled in back issues of the annuals published by the National Plott Hound Association and the American Plott Association. Along with photos of deceased bear, boar, mountain lion, and raccoon draped over pickup trucks, the pages are filled with moving encomia to the mettle of old Plotts, living and dead. Owners will often boast about their dogs when they've "pulled hair" (bitten a bear). Breeders may hyperbolize the tracking nose of a beloved stud ("able to cold trail and jump a bear, after the track has been boohooed, foot raced and gave up on") or relate harrowing tales of a season just past. ("I had four dogs injured before the bear was killed. Susie, Betsy, and ! Chuta ... were all bitten badly. The bear had Chuta's whole head in its mouth but she survived.") Fans write in from five continents, and breeders advertise from pockets throughout the United States.

These are not the sort of people who frequent Westminster. The hunter's needs for performance are not easily aligned with those of the dog-show world. The AKC cares about tracking a strong breeding line, however, and the pedigrees of the Plott are clear enough through centuries of North Carolina history. No other American hound shares its ancestry, which is from German rather than English stock. Most canine bloodlines have dissolved into the mists of folklore. Not so the Plott's, which are well-documented. It is one of the few dogs in the world named for a family whose descendents have continued to maintain the breed.

Madeleine Plott still lives on Plott Creek Road outside Waynesville, 50 miles southeast of Asheville, N.C. (Her house is not far from the Plott B! alsams range or from Cold Mountain, the destination for the returning Civil War solider in Charles Frazier's best-selling novel.) She is the French-born widow of Lawrence Plott, whose family has been breeding dogs in the Carolinas for centuries. Johannes Plott, who emigrated from Germany or Bohemia in 1750, settled in what is now Cabarrus County. He brought along a prized group of big-game hunting dogs. Whether they were related to the Hannover'scher schweiss-hund, as Lawrence Plott believed, is unclear. But records clearly indicate that their short, boxy ears and barrel chests differed from those of the droopier, less muscular English foxhounds popular in America at the time.

With minimal outcrossing with other breeds, propagation of the Plott continued from fathers to sons for five generations. Johannes, Henry, John, Montraville, and H.V. (Von) Plott all made names for themselves as superior breeders. Plott admirers outside the family and the state have also established strains with devout followers.

"My husband was very open-mi! nded," says Madeleine Plott. "He never believed that just because a dog came from the Plott family it was necessarily better than one that came from someone else." (None of the seven Plotts entered in Westminster was bred by a Plott family member.)

Acceptance into the dog-show world has not been without friction. Until about 10 years ago, the American Plott Association and the National Plott Hound Association were bitter antagonists. The former stresses the Plott's kinship with the cur, omits the word hound in its title, and encourages the older red-to-yellow "buckskin" coloring; the latter, accredited by the United Kennel Club since 1946, favors a coonhound profile and voice while disdaining any emphasis on buckskin-colored dogs.

"It was dirty, with a lot of name-calling and innuendoes," recalls John Jackson, a former president of the American Plott Association who helped the American Kennel Club, whose judges oversee Westminster, to write the standar! ds for the breed. "We've finally agreed to disagree." The AKC standard s now declare that "any shade of brindle (a streaked or striped pattern of dark hair imposed on a lighter background) is preferred. This includes the following brindle factors: yellow, buckskin, tan, brown, chocolate, liver, orange, red, light or dark gray."

A retired elementary-school teacher in Boone, N.C., as well as a Primitive Baptist preacher with four congregations, Jackson is a Plott scholar and a self-described "fool" for the dogs. "For grit and stick-to-it-iveness, the Plott has no rival," he attests. He is writing a book on its history and has hours of taped interviews with people in the region about their generations of trackers.

"Plotts will probably never make it to the finals of Westminster," Jackson said to me back in 1999, when he took me on my one and only bear hunt—an expedition into the North Carolina mountains with a pack of Plotts at the front that, to my relief, did not result in the death of a bear. "They aren't natured to be show dogs! ."

Three of the Plotts scheduled to compete yesterday were believed to be too stressed to make it into the ring. And the winner of best in breed, Black Monday, did not win the hound group and so will not advance into the starry best-in-show final round tonight. But for creatures that aren't used to standing at attention with their ears, paws, and tails just so, the newcomers performed admirably.

If they don't flinch from a snorting charge by a wild boar, how many years will it be before they learn to withstand the prying hands and eyes of an old bore in a tuxedo?

Richard B. Woodward is an arts critic in New York.

Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2184281/
Copyright 2009 Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive Co. LLC

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:09 am
by chilcotin hillbilly
Catch would your name happen to be Richard B, Woodward? :D

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:28 am
by Ike
No it isn't, but Catch has established himself as a plottman--no doubt about it! I have little doubt that he and his hounds are the real deal. However, I'll still say (and many agree) that bear hounds come in all colors and in all breeds, papered, crossbred and every other mix ever hunted so why don't we move on :?:

ike :beer

Re: best breed for bear

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:24 am
by larry
Catch wrote:
Jake Bell wrote:well catch i dont own any of them because i dont see the point in driving 2 days to get good dogs when there are good dogs down the road, which just so happen to be plotts, they are working great for me so why would i stop a thing thats working? im a pretty proud plott guy but c'mon man they arent the only "REAL" bear dogs out there, i just seem to have good luck with them. but you know what if they bring pups up with them when they are hunting up here this fall, i wouldnt think twice about buying a pup off them, hell atleast i know they actually hunt and not bitch about everyone else on the internet instead of taking a deep look at themselves. you kind of remind me of them mouthy guys at parties, no matter how big and strong you are, youl always go home with a bloody nose because theres always tougher guys around.



Well you answered my question just like I thought you would.
Thank You!


Oh, by the way, I don't go to parties, but if I did I doubt I would find to many guys that would bloody my nose!


Now Catch, Danny Calkins could be at that party