Running dogs that tree

[dog lake blues]

To separate talk from BS. I assume Dewey will be taking one top running dog over to Montana to sell to twist after he shows him how to consistently strike and tree Bob's?

[twist]

Dewey with all respect I have never in any of my post, look back through them, in all my yrs on here and find where I said it can't be done. If you find one please put it up for all to see! I have rigged a few cats here when I did Mark was the first to know as I called him as he is always after me to keep after it. ( Now for what I have said is rigging can't be done consistant enough to make it worth ones time in this area.) Andy

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I can't believe it is not worth while Andy.
I don't run bobbers but i do run a pile of lynx. With bad conditions and clients every week it is nice for me to have the options to rig. When I put the dogs on the box it is game on, they try 10 times harder to find the tracks on their own.
If I leave them in the box who knows how many cat tracks we drive by.
I would think you would see the same results.

[Clyde Lawson]

I can't believe it is not worth while Andy.
I don't run bobbers but i do run a pile of lynx. With bad conditions and clients every week it is nice for me to have the options to rig. When I put the dogs on the box it is game on, they try 10 times harder to find the tracks on their own.
If I leave them in the box who knows how many cat tracks we drive by.
I would think you would see the same results.

In another post, stated that while rigging we struck number of cats in close proximity of highway. We travel that same path about every hunt for about 5-6 miles to get to and from our hunt area. After having struck a number of times, I got up early(3 AM) and tried it cause there is little or no traffic & felt that I would not have any problem(and did not). When I struck this time, I only let down two of my older hounds and sure enough that went on other side of bar ditch and cat race was on!

After they got track away from highway about 1/2 mile, let the rest down and ended race with cat in hole under rocks in bluff.

On another note, and know that for your country and hunt area it may not work, I had dog box built similar to the F&T boxes only made it out of diamond plate with no insulation. I made 4 holes per side where hounds could stick heads out of box. That is interesting in it self as the hounds jostle as to who gets to have their heads out of dog box!
Have struck just as many that way as when they were on top.

Another point, the more experienced rigging hounds will not say much or anything when a younger hound opens on off game while rigging. Last hunt, a year old young hound that will strike on off game from box was the only one opening on a coyote that crossed in front of me. Other hounds never barked or even whined! Toned the young hound & he quit barking.

Believe like other hunters that post, that hounds are smart and a lot of their training can be done if hunted with straight, finished, trained hounds. Do not want to down play breeding either. Hootie S. has a favorite saying that I have heard many times: You would not attempt to make a race horse out of a shetland!

Not certain that my hounds hunt 10 times, but do know when say I park rig they all lay down and rest. When the truck starts they all are on their feet, heads out of box, and those on top are standing and looking!

Thanks,

Clyde

[Trueblue]

To separate the talk from BS. If he is willing to pay a huge price for a dog I want to know if he means it. In a area with no or few bobcats it will be pretty hard to strike and tree one every day. Just because it is hard to strike and tree a cat in his area does not mean it can't be done. I know it would be very hard to do but I am tired of hearing it can't be done. Dewey

I'm just curious Dewey. Why do you give a rip what Andy thinks ? Why does the fact that he doesn't believe it can be done with any regularity get under your skin ? I would think that a man of your years and experience could care less what anyone else thinks. Guys like you that have been there and done that generally don't have a thing to prove, their resume speaks for itself. Most guys when they get up in years have learned to have a little humility but I think your long successful resume has gone to your head and created a lot of ego instead. If your motivation for going to Montana is to prove to yourself that it can be done then I think that is commendable but if your motivation is to prove to the world that DEWEY WALTON IS THE MAN, well, I don't think you are going to gain any respect by such an adventure. Enjoy your life and your success Dewey. Life is too short to worry or be stressed about what anyone else thinks you can or cannot do because in all reality very few even care. Had an uncle that used to say, "why worry what anyone thinks of you when in all reality very few spend anytime thinking about you".

Now for my 2 cents on the topic. I would think that the best scenario for for anyone to have success rigging bobcats in Andy's country would be for someone like Dewey rather than someone form that area. Rigging is a skill that a dog hones through much experience. The more they do it the better they get. Anyone who lives in a bobcat rich environment where a dog can perfect that skill day after day, year after year, is going to have a distinct advantage in the rigging department. Common sense tells me that it would be much harder to build a proficient rig dog in Montana than it would be on the Oregon coast based on cat populations and environmental conditions. The question to me is not whether a man can take a top notch rig dog and got to Montana and strike some cats, but how hard is it for a guy who lives and hunts in Montana, 100% of time, to make a proficient rig dog ? I believe for the man in Oregon the odds are definitely stacked in his favor but for the guy from Montana the odds are stacked against him. Lots of opportunity and experience is what it takes to make a great rig dog and depending on where you live some dogs have a lot more opportunity than others.

[mark]

Lots of opportunity and experience is what it takes to make a great rig dog and depending on where you live some dogs have a lot more opportunity than others.


Would that be true for all the other traits that a dog needs to catch a cat?

[Big N' Blue]

If you only have the opportunity to catch 6- 10 cats a year! Very difficult to make any kind of cat dog. Jmho to the people that do that, I admire your tenacity and try, but for God's sake please stop calling them cat dogs and try to learn from the guys that catch 50 or more.

[Trueblue]

Would that be true for all the other traits that a dog needs to catch a cat?

All inherited traits being equal between dogs. Yes

[twist]

Gosh dang it blue you had to go and ruin my day lol. I have been at this game for over 30 yrs have I cought over 50 bobcats a yr NO not even close. Does that make myself not a houndsman and my hounds not cat hounds? I have to say there are very few states that this can be done and the ones that do this have some dang nice hounds no doubting that. But say I catch 20 cats a (season)4 1/2 months in this area and turn out on 25 that's 20 catches on 25 tries. Is that not a cat dog? In my eyes it is not a whole lot of misses so the dog must have what it takes. Now yes if that dog was in heavy cat country I suspect it would do just fine. Andy

[Clyde Lawson]

Andy & Blue,

Those that catch those "50 cats" per year make me feel I sure need to get some different hounds!

It is crazy in our hunt area in that we have to have moisture to be able to really run a cat. And with the best of conditions, I strike and run say 1-2 tracks per day and be able sometimes to have them "flag" on one or two(that they cannot get to go any where). BUT, better then 50-60% of time those races end as losses? Normally we see the cat cross in front of hounds, and some times 2-3 times.
Good example--good conditions one day out of three week before last--& that day we started with heavy frost that looked like a "young" snow. Temperature lasted all day around 45*--perfect hunting weather with no or limited wind. We struck 4 different tracks, had two good races, and caught those two cats on ground. The other two days I got to hunt, struck 4 tracks and saw one of the cats, but the great "cat god" made those tracks & the cats that made them just vanish?

Point being--those that say they have cat hounds that catch all of those cats on dry ground, well should would invite them to come to my hunt area & I would love to guide them and see for myself. I would not take a hound and sure not "mess up their hounds" just to see what I need to hunt!

Hunter friends that hunt same country are like myself in that one time one may catch/tree multiple of cats this month & then next month it is if our hounds went fishing instead of cat hunting!

Clyde

[al baldwin]

Blue have you hunted a season with all those hunters & know those # are accurate? There are other factors that limit some from catching 50 cat a year, anything can be written on this computer. An opportunity was missed by some who brag about big numbers, to bring their best hound & hunt before a witness, proving they can catch any cat. Just something to think about. Al

[dhostetler]

I have heard rumors of Montana Hunters catching 20 bobcats a year, including Andy from other hunters. I have never heard a rumor nor has anybody thought of coming up with a lie of 50+ bobcats caught in Montana in a season. So I guess we should all just shoot our Montana non bobcat dogs as culls.

[mark]

I know 4 guys in Mt.real well and 2or3 others a little bit that hunt hounds and they all have 2 things in common. The first is they all say that MT. has a poor bobcat population. The second thing is i have never once had them tell me they left a cat to run again if it was legal to kill it. Im not trying to piss anybody off but maybe there is a connection there?????

[catdog360]

[Big N' Blue]

[quote="dhostetler"]I have heard rumors of Montana Hunters catching 20 bobcats a year, including Andy from other hunters. I have never heard a rumor nor has anybody thought of coming up with a lie of 50+ bobcats caught in Montana in a season. So I guess we should all just shoot our Montana non bobcat dogs as culls.[/quote

You are one of the last people in the world i want to piss off. Have read enough of your post to know you know your stuff. What I was trying to get across is it is almost impossible to make a cat dog that reaches its full potential to be a straight bobcat dog with your limited opportunities! Sorry for the miss understanding of what I meant. When I had good dogs, I had the opportunity and did hunt 250 to 300 nights a year, year round.