BigGameHoundsmen.com

October 30, 2009

Hello Folks!

I have been promising to get this Article done for weeks now, but “Cat Hunting”
Keeps getting in the way.

We had a hard but successful Hunt in Florida this month. The Scenting conditions were horrible… high humidity…EAST Wind…mostly Dry conditions, very little water in the woods… and Hot temps, worse than in August.

The Hunt had highs and lows, I was promoted from Dogboy to Dog Sergeant then to Huntsman; and then I turned some Hounds out too soon and was demoted back to Dogboy.

We arrived at Camp before daylight on Sunday Oct. 4th. We planned on Not Hunting Sunday night however a Weather system was moving in and Rain was forecast for Monday and Tuesday. Dad said that we should make a round in case we were rained out later in the week.

We loaded up before dark and headed out to the southern Clubs that Dad is in. Deer Hound training season was going strong so we gave those Hunters time to catch up their Hounds about dark. They don’t really bother us however when a Deer Race approaches you always wonder how “Pressure Broke” your young Hounds are. Deer running the way they do a Deer Race is here and gone mighty fast.

We put the Hounds down to empty out before putting them up to Rig. After doing this for 20 min or so we were Rigging in earnest and had not gone far when Corky (this is Rivers littermate who was not performing up to speed for Mr. Harold Parker so Dad traded one of our 6 month old full sibs for him and has been working to “get his mind straight”) Sang out with his big Bass Horn mouth telling us that a Bobcat had made this road its feeding ground for the night. We put the Rig Dogs down they barked a time or two then moved the track down the road to the Canal Road and down it before moving the track off into a Blue Mud Swamp. The track was tough to move for a while but Brandy Yodeled out that she had found where the Cat had left the Swamp for a Plantation.

We pulled down a dim road to where a Deer Stand is located to better hear, and hear we did! Brandy, Corky, Rivers et al had jumped the Cat and the “Opry” had started. We had the old pros Rita, Rip and Cheyenne along with the young Hounds, 12 in all. The Music was loud and in Harmony with all singing their loudest. Rip grabbed the Cat as she tried to slip out of the Plantation into a SMZ and back into the Plantation the Pack came. WOW what music; Dad was filling every Pocket that he had. About 15 min into the Race this smart ole Sow pulled a trick out of her Ditty Bag by doubling back tight on her tract and caused a brief loose but it was enough to allow her to hit the SMZ she had tried earlier. She thought her escape was immanent but Corky and Cheyenne had other ideas, they found where she had gone and called the Pack to come help. You could watch on the Garmin Astro 220, the Hounds who had been circling looking for the Cat, Hark to Corky and Cheyenne.

They heated the track up and for the next 30 min the Pack ducked and dodged the Cat up and down the road ditch, in and out of the SMZ, never getting further than 150 yds from us. The Volume on the Music was all the way up, at time the Roar was so loud that you could not pick out any individual, just a Roar that must have been in the 60 decibel range! This could not last long! But this ole Sow had a trick or two left yet to pull. She had tried twice to come out into the road and the Pack would not let her. Finally she had to do something so out she came; it almost did not work as Sandy and Rip ran the Cat by sight out of the road into a ditch full of water.

This bought her some time to try to pull a Houdini only Rita and Rivers have read the Book and were thinking Bobcat. They found where the Cat had slipped out and called for help, the Cavalry arrived and turned the Heat way up on this Cat… so much so that after another 15 min. this Big (23#) ole Sow expired in mid stride as the picture shows. There was NO fight, the Opry went from full volume to nothing then Penny and Sage started baying about 130 yds from the truck.


Penny, Chick, and Cheyenne baying Cat


Dad with 23# Old Sow Cat after 1 Hour 15 min. Race

This was the first of two that we caught this night, the first time I have been along when we caught two before midnight.

The second Cat Choctaw Rigged off the top. This would be the only Cat that we trailed for any length of time on this trip. Corky found where he had gone down a road behind us out into a Plantation. Penny then found where the Cat had hit another road then gone into a fresh Clear-Cut. Rita, Cheyenne and Rip reached way out and found where the Cat had left the Clear-cut and gone into a huge 10 year old Pine Plantation.

We have run several Cats in this Block; they always run deep and hearing is hard but when it is wet we can not drive into this Block. This was the case this night. We stayed within 400 yds but never got any closer than 150. The Air had become heavier as the Humidity came up as the Storm approached and sound did not carry as well as it did for the 1st Race.

This was a young Tom judging from its Track, it staked out its place to make is last stand and ran up and down a SMZ for the next hour. We could pick out the Squealing chop mouths of Sage, Brandy and Rita. We could also pick out Rivers and Corky when they Bawled out when they got a pick up but the rest were just background music for the more distinctive mouths.

When the Cat decided to pull a Mike Tyson it was bad. I can usually get to the Pack to help out with my Hickory Stick but not this time! It was too bad with too much water and too far. They bayed and fought for almost an hour till they “got-err-done”. I had some Doctoring to do when we got back to Camp as this Cat was “MEAN”.

I will tell about the rest of the Hunt in the next installment but suffice to say it got much harder after this till the last night!

Good Running to All!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Thanks Mr. Clay,
That story will help get me thru the day. I will be running that cat in my mind all day! LOL
Wont be long now till the mules are saddled!

October 30, 2009

Folks back with the rest of the October Florida Hunt.

We were @ the Camp for 22 days, hunted all are part of 19 of them and Caught or Treed 23. This does not count two pop ups that were up before I could get the Rig Dogs off the truck. (These are a couple of Big Ole Tom Cat who are spoiled and climb when they hear the truck much less a Hound bark.) Also we had two escapes from Ruby, Queen and the pups. One was our fault, the other Bad scenting with the Cat hitting a Dry Sandy road. We also had a big Tom pull a Houdini on the main pack on one of the Bad Bad scenting condition nights; this was one of the 3% that just happen no matter how good the Hounds are.

Our total Races were 26 that lasted longer than 5 min.!

It rained us out the 5th and the morning of the 6th but we took The two Old Bitches and Pups on Tuesday night and Treed a Sow Cat after a 45 min Race. This was early in the night, we hunted another 5 hours and failed to get a strike or see any game crossing the roads of any kind. The night became DEAD. The 1st of many this trip.

After the rain had moved out on Tuesday Summer returned to North Florida with a vengeance, we had daytime heat indexes in the 100 % range for two weeks. Humidity stayed in the high 70s and low 80s. The air was heavy when you had a Race hearing was difficult.

On Wednesday night we Rigged over 80 miles in the southern Clubs with no luck! We returned to the home club and Rigged another 12 miles before striking a Cat within a mile of Camp. This track was Smoking Hot and the Race was on from the time we put the Rig dogs down. However every time the Cat hit a road we had to rejump him before the Race could resume. Penny and Corky save the day twice. We had 7 young Hounds and the 4 Pups. Cimarron (full sib to Rivers and Corky) put on quite a show, for a 6 month old Pup to get the pick ups in the company she was in was impressive! This big Tom, we saw his track then saw him cross the road, went to a Cypress pond and ran for the last 45 min. within 300 yds of the road. He put on a nice display of Catology till the Heat became too much, Dad looked at me and quoted Mr. Jim Moore “He will have to Fly, Climb, or Die”. The Cat must have heard him as it took the second option.

We let the Deer Runners have Friday and Saturday nights. Then we hunted 14 hours Sunday into Monday with 11 strikes and could not get any off the roads. Scenting conditions as bad as they could get. I know some of you think that this is a good excuse for sorry Hounds. However if you know your Hounds YOU know what is going on. The folks up and down the East & Gulf Coast deal with this much more regularly than any of us like!

Same results Monday night with Ruby, Queen and the Pups. Ole Ruby is as good a Hound as Dad has ever raised. Colder nosed than average and darn sure SMARTER than average, if she can not find a Cat off the road you might as well be at home watching TV. We Rigged over 50 miles with 5 strikes.

Tuesday night into Wednesday we Rigged for over 6 hours with several strikes before Rivers winded a Cat beside the road out in a 1 year old Clear-Cut. The Pack burned this Cat up for 20 min when he took option two and Climbed a big Live Oak next to the road. We left him and went to find another, which we finally did just before daylight.

Corky rigged this one Hot. The pack ran the Hell out of him for 45 min then the Big Tom hit the water causing a bad loose. When Rita found him he had hit a road getting into that Bobcat trot that Cat hunters know well. The pack got further and further behind, we picked them up crossing a road out of our Club into another 30 min later.

Thursday night we again took just the 6 young (3 years to 18 months) Hounds and the 4 – 6+ month old Pups. Brandy Rigged a Hot Cat off the top which the Arsonists put up a Tree in 20 min. We left him to run again and went to find another. Corky found it, Rivers jumped it and Meg tried to tree it after a fast and furious 25 min Race. Dad knick names each generation on Pups. This crop is the Arsonists as the can Burn a Cat up when Scenting conditions are right.

No Hunting on Friday.

Saturday Rigged over 60 miles with Ruby, Queen and the Pups. About 3:30 AM I am rigging up a Club road when a Big Tom Cat jumps up out of the ditch onto a hipped up row where young Pines are planted. Ruby and Queen on top have not said a word. I pull up right to where the Cat was and still nothing. I put them down with Sage (two years) and still nothing. I walk them out about 50 yds where the Cat went, still nothing. By now Dad wonders if we had been hallucinating! I walk them to the wood line and the Hounds leave running and barking like they are looking at the Cat. Dad tailgates the Pups and the Race is on. This was the same Big Tom that we had run the previous Thursday morning. He lasted about the same length of time and ran in the same Cypress Pond before climbing just before they were going to catch him. Wind blowing out of the East 15 mph!

Sunday into Monday Rigged over 100 miles. Strike Hot about 3:30 AM, ran Cat up road .8 mile. Then it went right up a tree. Hunted till daylight and Jumped a Cat @ 8:30 AM and ran him in the same big block as the second Cat the 1st night. Only this time we were able to drive into them and heard a good 1 hour Race which ended with the Cat going into an old Dozier pile.

Monday into Tuesday no Luck! Strikes but could not get em off the road.

Tuesday into Wednesday morning. Hunted hard the 1st part of the night NO LUCK. Drove over 50 miles. Took a two hour nap in the truck. Then started back, struck Hot Cat a 3:30 AM Treed it. Then struck, jumped and treed another before 5 AM both Races lasted about 20 min. @ 5:30 Struck a Cat who ran good for 35 min up and down the road before going into a Dozier pile. Thought we could go home but dad said to try to find one more as it had cooled off a little.

Corky Rigged a Hot track about 7:45 AM and the Race was on. This Cat must have eaten a big rabbit for Breakfast as he only lasted 20 min before treeing in a Big Pine. Penny must have seen him go up as she sat down and treed like a Cur Dog. Rita, Rip and Meg joined her. It was 140 yds or so from the road through a Bad Swamp but I went to them. The Cat is hard to see in the Pic but is looking at me from just over the big knot. I killed a Big Cotton mouth going to the tree, sure makes one wonder about having treedogs.


Thursday was to be our last Day to Hunt as we were leaving Saturday.
We got up early and took Ruby, Queen and the Pups. We Rigged over 30 miles before finding a Hot Cat beside the road. The Arsonist put it on this Big Tom pretty darn good. When the Pups dropped him The Two Old Girls straightened it out. We saw the Cat cross the road twice but screwed the pooch and messed up the Race when the Cat crossed a third time and we did not see him. We kept trying to put the Hounds back where the Cat had left from and bought him enough time to hit a road and leave the country. This was the Cat I got demoted on!

Dad sending the Dogs in where the Cat had gone

Thursday night we took the Young Hounds and the 4 Arsonists back South. This night made up for all the Bad ones we had had. Corky struck a Hot track while we had them down emptying out. This led to the best Race we have had all year. Back and forth across the road, up and down the ditch…for 45 min the “Opry” played a concert that would and should have raised the Dead, at times no Hound could be picked out of the Roar! Cimarron at times seemed to be dominating the Race being only mouth you could pick out. Finally the Cat Crossed the road one time too many and the Pack bayed in the ditch.

front row: Corky (head only), Cimarron, Brandy; back row Penny, Rose, Cherokee

Brandy baying

Dad shouted to back the truck up and load the Hounds, to save the Cat if we could. We did not have Rip or Chic with us so we were able to load every one and save the Sow Cat to run another day!

We went on Hunting and treed two more before midnight. The last Cat ran for over an hour before taking option two right next to the road. Dad said lets go home as it just could not get any better and what a way to end the Hunt!

We are Blessed to have the wherewithal to be able to Hunt as Hard as we do. Dad has worked hard and has worked harder on breeding his Hounds! His Days might be numbered but he plans on taking advantage of every one that he can.

Good Running to all!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

Very good job on a first-rate story, and you did really well with the pictures too.
Thanks for sharing!

I loved the pic's. Especially the big red blancketback dogs. All are good looking, but a red dog has to be my favorite when he looks like that one does. Great stories as well. I know how hard it can be to get good action pictures. I am normally so pumped by the chase that I forget to pull my digital camera out, until the crossing has passed me by. I wish I had as many places as yall to hunt and find grey foxes. I would rather hunt than eat. How do they clay hounds match up on a fox race? Im sure yall have had to run one before if yall be hunting that long. Great stories, if i was having running like that and could take good pictures, I would post them too.

Perk

those are some great tales. The pictures really help bring the story to life. happy huntin, Jon

Perk,

Dad starts all the Pups on Greys. We have a friend who has a 5 acre pen with 10 or so Greys. When the Pups are 5 months they make a couple trips there. Then Dad uses one of his old wore out bitches to start a Grey outside (we have a few right across the road from the Florida Camp) once the Pups are catching or tree the Greys regularly they get put with another old Bitch and run on Cat. After they get 6 months past and have run a few Cat they get to go with the Main Pack once a week, but are still hunted regularly with the two old Bitches so that they get to learn how to do stuff themselves. Not just follow the better young and finished Hounds. This means that we are usually Hunting two Packs.

Perk the Big Reds are my favorites as well. Color is the last thing Dad looks at when he is making his matings. Most of his Hounds have been Lemon or Red Spotted over the years. A NC Pen Fox Hunter who breeds lots of Hounds saw ours and told us that The Big Reds were a sign of danger in Hound breeding. We have found this to be so...for the Bobcats that is!

These Hounds are bred to be Cat/ Grey Fox Dogs. Old Mark S. was the best Grey Fox Hound Hinckle Shilling ever had according to lots of Good Hunters. Ed Corker and Mr. Clifford Clarke from your neck of the woods used to have lots of Ch. Mark S. Hounds. Up until the Pens got started that is!

Glad you all like the Pics and Stories, there should be a couple in the newest issue of Ultimate Preditor Magazine.

CJC

Being able to let young dogs do work for themselves and not follow the just pack, is definately the way to help a young dog reach his potential quick. Unfortunately most people cant hunt enough to keep 2 packs like that, or afford too. I dont know if I have ever seen Red as a sign of danger in the breeding. There is a guy from up in culpeper Va named Clyde Mercia, He used to raise alot of walker puppies, and had done it long enough he had his own line, that was as famous in this area as Hills, Or Hellums is in other areas. It is called Grindstone breeding, and i would say 90% of those dogs were gonna be red and of that 90% 75 percent of those were gonna be red blancket backs. Alot of people in the area who hunt Pens or Deer own this stock. I have 5-6 dogs that are this breeding in my pack, and have tried several others. All of them have been red, except one. The guys in the pens like them beacue they genreally have a extra touch of speed, and the guys who hunt loutside like them because they are generally good track dogs. Not enough broke dog hunters around to know how many hunt them but each of the 4 guys I hunt with regularly have at least a little of that stock. They tend to like a red a little more, but the majority can hammer a grey too, one of the few breedings that can do both pretty well that ive seen. The one major fault is they dont have a cold enough nose to be a good strike dog. I got some buddies who pen hunt that their entire breeding program is based on this line of hounds, and they are successful at what they do. I dont know how someone can consider a color a sign of danger, unless they are speaking from personal experience. Im going to try to post a couple hound pictures with this post, to show you some of my red, grindstone breeding.




The first one is of my favorite dogs, although admittedly not my best all the time but can be on any given day he has his head on straight, my best jump dog though, and another gyp.
Second pic should be 2 puppies I raised off the male dog in pic one and a gyp of mine
3rd pic is of another grindstone bred gyp, got a small litter on the ground off of her now, she probably barks 120+ times a minute in a chase when she has the fox, and at least 100 all other times. The lemon and white gyp farther up the path, is not grindstone bred but she is the mother of the yound dogs in pic 2, and has a million dollar squalling mouth, when she is up ontop the fox this dog makes a continuous noise, no clue when she breathes.
Just thought id try to post a couple pics!
Perk

Perk,

Nice, Very Nice Hounds!

We are not familiar with the Grindstone Hounds.

Dads Reds come from a Double Mark S. Bred Hound named Lange’s Steady Scott. He was bred by Mr. Mel Clark of W. VA.

Mr. Clark along with Mr. Clifford Clarke of VA linebred Mark S. Hounds and had some Great Grey/Red Fox Hounds.

Mr. Ed Corker of VA had the last living son of Mark S., a very nice Hound named Gangster Jake. Unfortunately Old age for the two Clarks and the Pens for Mr. Corker made these type Hounds obsolete in most peoples minds.

Poon on here from NC breeds and Hunts a line of “High Tans” that are Cat/Fox catching machines. If one of these were bred to one of your Big Reds you will probably get lots of Big Reds!

Again very Nice Hounds and the fact that you keep them in the woods makes them even nicer.

CJC

Ive met Ed Corker plenty of times at feild trials, I have a buddy who shows dogs on the bench or judges the bench show and always gets me to come help show or be the ringmaster for the show. I dont run in them. I was unaware that he owned the Gangster Jake dog. You are talking about the hound registered Gangster Jake C. correct?I thought he belonged to a guy above culpeper, where he is buried today and has a head stone in a family graveyard. My dad and his buddies used to hunt alot of that Gangster Jake stock before he got out in the early nineties. The grindstone breeding has plenty of that in the line. I had a gyp I sold that was grinstone bred and had the Jake dog showing 5-6 times in the pedigree and if you went back 2 more generations it would have been seen 13 times or so. You wont see much in the grinstone breeding on the papers besides the name grindstone as this man has been line breeding for 25 years, similar to the Clay hounds, but it definately goes back to the Gangster jake dog alot. This guy loves a hard tracck running dog. My dad was always high on that breeding, I was unaware that it was Mark S. breeding though, maybe I learn something new everyday

Perk

Perk,

That is what I get for typing without Dad in the room. Gangster Jake was owned by Mr. Clifford Clarke...Mr. Ed Corker owned the last living Sons of Jake.

Dad says that Jake was the perfect cross for Grey Fox/Bobcat, combining the Ch. Mark S. Line with the Pine Ridge Fred Hounds. Both Lines were bred by men who Hunted and Culled Hard. They darn sure knew what a HOUND was!

Attached is a pedigree chart that I put together on Dads Hounds. He has a brief summary of the merits and faults of most of the Hounds listed here!

Charts of Tail Female Lines of the Clay Hounds





Next time you talk to Ed Corker tell him we said Hello!

Dad is interested in the Grindstone Hounds!

CJC

the charts are way more than anything ive ever seen, never looked at anything but a five generation pedigree before. Next time I see Mr Corker I will try to remember to tell him hello. I dont think too many people in central Va that own dogs to deer hunt/ fox hunt/ or field trial have not tried and liked some dogs out the grindstone line, heck i even got a couple that will run a bear, the male in the pic is the worst dog I own about wanting to run a bear. All will tell you that the guy who bred the stock isnt the best on keeping papers up, so you had to listen when he told you what the puppy you bought was out of and then wait for it to show up in the chase, when he sent stuff in once a year. This caused a problem that alot of people who had puppies would register it on the first litter enrollment they could for fear of not getting their pup registered waiting for the right papers. I know of serveral who are grindstone top and bottom and have completely different papers off a different line because the dog was so good and they were impatient. the think I like about the line the most is most have a strong desire to catch him, run him in/up or make him disappear off the face of the earth, they dont just run the scent, they want the animal. Alot have been scratched in field trials for cunning running, ive seen some of the dogs beat the fox to the road before if they had hunted the area and knew where the crossing were, they darn sure have brains, sometimes they dont use it for the better though.

Those are great stories. Thank you for posting, I enjoyed reading them.