BigGameHoundsmen.com

i have been hunting lions off my friends dogs for the past 4-5 yrs and when we let his dogs go, let me tell you, we are committed for the long haul! Unless of course they catch it and you find em all under that tree. but if they dont catch em then we are chasing dogs from here till christmas tryin to round em all up! we are lucky as hell to get em all in one day! just wonderin how you guys have trained your dogs to come back to you when you let go on a track? i want my pups to be trained right!!

1. Disipline
2. Electricity
3. That beeper on the trashbreaker

No means no and come means come...24/7...period.

I have seen a lot of this and I sure wish I knew what to tell you, but I don't.

My dogs don't do that. Maybe what liontracker said : shock the shit out of them!

I don't know what kind of terrain you hunt but where I hunt I try to only turn loose on tracks that I "think" are catchable that day. The dogs I have now will (better) be doing one of two things by the end of the day....either still trailing, or backtracking out to a road or where they got turned loose. i dont know s&%t about anything but in my opinion when a dog is turned loose on a track it better be either trailing, treed, or working out some kind of a loose. That being said I dont mind my dogs coming back out a few hours after dark if there not lookin like there gonna get it jumped. My dogs will eventually come out sometime in the night depending on how far they have gone and how cold it is. Some guys might not like that but I do because I know I can pick where I left off in the am instead of walking in to find a bunch of dog hair tramped into the snow under wolf tracks!!!

If your looking for dogs all over the country at the end of the day I would suggest something isnt going right.....theres game at the end of those tracks, and if they stay on em long enough they'll find it. They should at least be together still trailing as opposed to running around here there and everywhere. If there all over like that and not trailing when your trying to get them gathered up I would think you have bigger problems then not being able to get ahold of them. But like I said I dont know anything much about this and someone else will probly agree with that and give you a better answer.

I've commented on this before and will again, and the answer is voice commands and patience, voice commands again and patience, voice commands and the beeper on that tri-tronic shocker system, and patience, and then vocie commands and a low level shock, more patience and even the most head strong hound alive will listen.......

It is best, however, to start in the backyard in a controlled area and then move out to the field under roading conditions. And if that dog has learned to listen throughout those stages as a young dog (or old) a person shouldn't have any trouble calling dogs off a track, tree or bayup. But like trash breaking it doesn't happen the first time, but a trust relationship is gained and a dog will listen.

I told this story once and I'll tell it again. A friend in law enforcement wanted to go run dogs last winter and I'd had him along the winter before in deep snow, but on this trip I wanted to show him how hounds that will handle hunt lion in the dirt, so he was invited along one April day.

We kicked six of my hounds out roading in front of us and they first struck a lion and were opening hard and leaving, so I jumped out of the truck and found a small yearling type female lion track. I called to those hounds (who were a hundred yards gone on the run) and they all did an about face and came back, so we lined them out and continued on......

Another mile or two and those hounds struck a nice tom scratch under a tree, and I could see the scratch mound and knew they had that tom going the right way before I left the truck. I explained all that to my hunting partner, and then we walked over to the scratch and examined it and found the tom leaving just as I'd told him.

The tom track lead down onto some private property where we couldn't take the truck and so we parked and got in behind those hounds. Those hounds got out ahead of us and were working in a canyon below us not far from the highway. Since we didn't have a way to cut them off, and because my partner needed to be back in town in a few hours I called all six of those hounds back--and they were more than a half mile ahead of us and down in a canyon.

In my opinion, they could have jumped that tom in that canyon and treed him, and if not the track would have crossed the highway and put my dogs at risk. Catching a tom lion has never been worth the risk of getting them ran over in my opinion, and I hope it never will be either.

My friend had asked me earlier if there was anything special about my hounds and weren't they all the same earlier in the track. After those six hounds joined us we all headed back to the truck with those hounds casting. Then my friend thought a minute and said, you know I hunted with some houndsmen years ago and when they released their dogs we didn't see them again until the next day, so I figured he answered his own question about whether those dogs were special..........

If a dog isn't listening to me he isn't going to stay very long........

ike

I know that this is probably not going to help you with your dogs but I don't hunt dogs that don't come out when they are done.I don't want them to lay down in the woods and go to sleep or just run around up on the mountain.They either come out to a road or they come back to where I let them go.I breed for this trait.The last litter that I had From the first time I turned them loose, every one of them came back to where I turned them loose if they didn't make the race.All of my dogs come to me if they can hear me and they are done hunting.I didn't realy train them to do this but I culled the ones that didn't.

You need to train them to come back to you BEFORE you turn them out on a track. Shortcuts don't work. Start in the yard, then while legging them up and then a couple of dryruns in the "Field". Done right here's what you can expect: You will be able to stand on a rim and cast the dogs down into the canyon below. They will hunt it out thoroughly and if they don't strike, you will be able to beep them and they will instantly come on the run back to you and you can repeat the process. Here's the important part: The dogs need to realize beyond any shadow of a doubt, that they hunt for you, not themselves. It is supposed to be teamwork, not work catching the team. A well disciplined hound is a joy to hunt.

I agree you have some hound training to do but thats easy to say here on the computer. The training you need to be doing is in the mountains with your dogs. Personally if your dogs are chasing the game your turning them out on then it sounds to me like you are quitting your dogs. If I turn my dogs out on a lion track and they want to chase it for a week to catch it then Ill be behind them. But if they are running deer then they can stay in the mountains for the night. Chasing deer can be be kind of fun but it will wear you out in a hurry, just kidding. If they are chasing deer then when they come out would be a perfect time to do some deer training, preferably high voltage training. But in short if they are real lion hounds and you want them to come back just shoot a gun in the air. Regardless of what a lot of guys try to make you believe those dogs run that track because they like to chew on the lion after you shoot it. So thats why I say if they are real lion hounds they will come to a gun shot.

Good Luck

Jim Evenson wrote:I agree you have some hound training to do but thats easy to say here on the computer. The training you need to be doing is in the mountains with your dogs. Personally if your dogs are chasing the game your turning them out on then it sounds to me like you are quitting your dogs. If I turn my dogs out on a lion track and they want to chase it for a week to catch it then Ill be behind them. But if they are running deer then they can stay in the mountains for the night. Chasing deer can be be kind of fun but it will wear you out in a hurry, just kidding. If they are chasing deer then when they come out would be a perfect time to do some deer training, preferably high voltage training. But in short if they are real lion hounds and you want them to come back just shoot a gun in the air. Regardless of what a lot of guys try to make you believe those dogs run that track because they like to chew on the lion after you shoot it. So thats why I say if they are real lion hounds they will come to a gun shot.

Good Luck

yeah, cause real lion hounds are born knowing what a gunshot means. I've seen quite a few older very good very consistent lion dogs that could care less after the gun goes off.

you have to do the training before you ever hunt the dogs, starting when they are pups. Some great advice and some absolutely terrible advice here. Get a handle on your dogs, your buddy might not know better, but he should be embarrassed. it is pretty painless and simple to get your dogs to handle with the right tools and methods. You need to see first hand dogs that are trained right to know what you want. Ditch the idiot and start hunting with someone that takes pride in all aspects of their hounds.

liontracker wrote:1. Disipline
2. Electricity
3. That beeper on the trashbreaker

No means no and come means come...24/7...period.

absolutely!

Mike Leonard wrote:I have seen a lot of this and I sure wish I knew what to tell you, but I don't.

My dogs don't do that. Maybe what liontracker said : shock the shit out of them!

+1 for the shocker beeper. I hold down the beeper button. Its either stop what your doing and come back or get a shock. I also practice at home sometimes on new dogs. Hit the beeper and suddenly theres a dog at my feet. little bit of praise for coming to me and so ends the lesson. Wether to continue to beep or shock depends on what the tracker is indicating when im in the field.

I really dont have an issue with dogs not coming back but when the rest of the dogs come back and im ready to go and there one still out trying to re run a cold one then the beeper usually solves the problem for me.

i want my pups to be trained right!!

baby pups --- teach them to come to you for a treat - praise them up -

as they get a little older --- walk them in the woods-


try to hide from them
- they will try to find you -

doesnt seem like training -just a game --keep it fun -- teaches pup to trail and to hunt with you -


while they are still young---try calling them to you when they are distracted -if they dont come , run them down and discipline them -

you can outrun them --- you are stronger -
every so often , make them come, whether they want to or not -

a lot of pups will grow up , still thinking you can out run them

most of them, you will have to reinforce it with a shock collar ,

you can train any dog to come with a shock collar-
better , if you start with pups and make it a more natural thing.


if you get an older dog with no manners ,

you train them to come with a treat and a long rope - same as pups ---
its very easy to get a dog to come that wants to


before you force them with e-collar
---you need to be sure that they know what come means ,

to get them to come like Ike described-

use a long rope
call them and bump them with collar if they dont come

most will naturally come to you to get away from whatever shocked them-

a few dogs will just balk up , freeze right there- this is kind of a tough one

you can haul them to you with rope

or just wait them out ---or holler down and call it good -


i usually just walk up to them and leash them up ---try again later- i dont want to torture them doing yard training--- i use lowest settings , many times i dont shock them -


at some point i will shock them with the rope on-

i have skipped this step many times -
some dogs will hide out or try to run away --

the rope is so they have to come or go down-

you are conditioning them to do what you want later --


with patience and repetition and an e collar i think you can train any dog to come when called --
this includes off a hot track ,

work up to this gradually-- your not trash breaking -- tone them when they are about done , shock on lowest settings to get them to quit - eventually you can call them off anytime-- i have had quite a few dogs like that --- it doesnt happen overnite ,i dont try to rush it - you can harm a dog with an e-collar if you dont use it carefully

its a very powerful tool -not a magic wand

it makes me faster and stronger -really extends my reach
--it doesnt make me any smarter --

Yup, lots of good comments and advice on this thread and everybody has their own slant to make it all work for them and their dogs. But bottom line is a person does need to get those hounds handling and be able to make them quit a track or tree is some situations. One case in point if those hounds are headed into danger out onto a highway where the public will often mow them down like a jackrabbit; another is if they are headed onto private ground where you aren't welcome and you'll have to call the law to retrieve your dogs; another if they were caught on a rock face where you can't get to them and it's a catch and release hunt; another is late in the afternoon with the sun dropping over the horizon and the track is still cold. In this state it's not legal to run lions at night, and therefore a guy should attempt to get in close and call them out in the waning hours of light. Leaving hounds out is problematic in that a hound can get into a leg hold trap that was set for a bobcat and damage or lose a foot. So there are plenty of reasons to be able to handle your hounds and I don't call any of that quitting your hounds................

ike

Part of what makes a houndsmen is the way he handles his dogs and part of what makes a hound is the way the it handles for him. It is this relationship that makes everyday out in the woods enjoyable. If you have caught a few critters but have no control over your dogs then there is still a lot of work in front of you. Just yesterday I cut a lion track that pretty well matched Ike's story. I found it in the middle of the day. The dogs took it to the ridge, crossed over on private. There was major highway just a couple miles down the track and it was getting late in the day. Also there where deer and elk everywhere. At one point I walked up on a herd of about 30 elk close enough I could have spit on them. The dogs where a good 50 yards away. The elk where standing there listening to the dog bells when I spooked them and they stampeded right for my dogs. I was sure there was going to be an elk chase but they made me proud when they let them go right by as if they where cattle. I guess all that previous training was helpful. I called them over to me and we headed in. On the way to the truck we crossed the lion track again that we had started out on. The dogs really wanted to take it again but I asked them not to. It was sure nice to have them listen so I didn't have to chase them down, leash them and drag them off the mountain back to the truck. Instead of an exhausting dead end lion track that could have resulted in dogs being left out over night and me going home in a bad mood. The dogs and I had an enjoyable walk through the woods, we got to fallow a lion track and see some wildlife too.
I handle my dogs with as much direction as I can think of. I teach them to sit while I feed them and they only eat when I tell them too. They are not allowed to pull on the leash and they have to sit and wait while I open gates or cross fence (while on a leash). They are not allowed to charge out of the dog box. The first dog out gets geared up while the other waits. And they receive lots of praise. All this is certainly related to making a hound.