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Lets say you suspect a trash race. Is it worse to shock the dog when maybe it was not trash, or to not shock the dog when it was in fact trash.??? Or maybe I'll put it this way. You think the dog is trashing and you shock him and it turns out he was not trashing OR, you don't shock the dog because you aren't sure if he's trashing and it turns out he was trashing. Which scenario is the worst for the dog? Now I know ideally, it would be best to confirm one way or the other, but lets face it, that is not always possible to do before the dogs get out of range.

Im just quoting from what I read in "walking with wick". The question you raised was basically exact in the book. Wick said to give a little quick "tickle" from the shocker. If the dogs is trashing then he said more than likely the dog will be brought back to its sences. If not this should just make the dog pause for a moment and return to running its track.

Wether it works or not I wouldnt be able to say. Ive never really tried it. There have always been honest dogs around to tattle on the trasher. I guess if anything I would try the beeper on my shocker if I was in the same situation.

CJC said it best when he said "always doubt your dogs" meaning ussually if you think they are running trash your are right.

I do the shock method alot and it works well with older dogs who know better. Just tap on a low setting and if they are right they will just pause for a second and go on. When they are wrong they'll quit it and come back. Works well with my dogs but all of mine are as hard headed as they come

This doesnt work as well with young dogs because they ussually arnt sure what they are suppose to chase and what not to.

I trusted a 3 year old dog the other day and by the time I was able to find what he was chasing he was out of range and chased deer all day the dirty SOB!!! LOL

...and you can take that to the bank!

I will not shock my hounds unless I am positive that they are trashing. jmo

Depends on their track record, let 'em get away with it too much - good luck from there.

As quoted before:

"I would rather knock them off the right Game a dozen times...than
let them Riot once"!

Benjamin H. Hardaway MFH

A good rule for Houndsmen!

CJC

catdogs wrote:Lets say you suspect a trash race. Is it worse to shock the dog when maybe it was not trash, or to not shock the dog when it was in fact trash.???

Hmmm, well put Here's an idea, spend some time trash breaking your dogs before you go hunting and not worry about it.

ahhhh What a revelation Larry - thanks!

Any time, keep those intelligent questions comin

Here is another idea Codelarry. You giving advice to Catdogs is like me teaching you stupid!!! Just don't make sense does it.

Go ahead an fire away with your well thought out rebuttal. I'll try not to cry.

My dogs are guilty until proven otherwise.

Mine know what good game is, and its gonna take more than one or two shocks or scoldings to break em. But they aren't bad on being trashy, so I'm gonna keep it that way. I'd rather be wrong than let them be. I'd rather accidently shock them on good game once than have to shock them 20 more times on trash because of that "one time I wasn't sure if it was trash."

I'm to lazy to go out "breaking" I just take things as they come. I've always been pro shocking (on a low setting, then a good verbal scolding - if I'm not positive its trash). Seems to work for me.

i can see where mikes tickle method could work-

ive had a lot of dogs that were bent- if i was near them and doubtful, i hollared and got ignored ---THEN , i was sure they werent trashin its kind of the same thing--


they got bent from being shocked on trash previosly--




i have worked on some dogs a lot to get them to come when called --
enforce it with a shock collar --if doubting them , i have called them off , leashed them up and looked for tracks -
works great on older tracks -

sometimes hot tracks when they are crossing a road -

the closer i can get , the hotter track im likely to be able to call them off -
very few dogs that i dont feel the need to check tracks when possible

few years ago ,,was trying to start an older bear track out of a cornfield with some young dogs - i could see the track in places but had been about any trash u can think of there after the bear -

there had been 2 feet of snow, 2 days before , almost all melted

weird conditions -this was middle october ,freak snowstorm

i had to climb over snowbank -lol but snow mostly gone under trees - leaves were on when that snow came --limbs and leaves and down trees everywhere --
young dogs , still a little coony , the snow had smashed the corn down-sorta turned cornfield into a thicket , there was coon still in that corn - i know because i went back in the afternoon that same day with pups and got two coon

nyways that time , i called them off twice, finaly got it going and treed - just guess work -and a little luck -

i dont trust dogs easily -a few years without running trash and i start to trust them ,


to answer your question-- i really cant-- i wish i could be sure everytime -

what is dogs history ? if hes a tough bone head thats run lots of trash , i might just guess and shock him lightly -i have shocked dogs before just guessing-- its not what i want to do , i guess it all depends on dogs history-

and quite a bit just on his temperment--

no way i want to shock a pup off his first run without being pretty sure
-
i also dont pass up many opportunities to trashbreak a young dog -



just lately , a buddy offered to let me borrow his older dog


the dog hadnt been hunted for awhile , took him out and he ran a deer ,,,,,two days previously

-he had a collar on him and shocked him . -
he is sure he is broke now --

he is very optimistic

im sorta the opposite of that

-that dog isnt going to live long enuff for me to trust him -


- dog i was using , year old , very gamey , hasnt got caught runnning any trash YET --only a matter of time

i appreciate his offer but , no thanks
ill let him start his own trash and pay for it when i catch him at it -

I work with trashbreaking my dogs early on. These were both younger dogs (year and half), one was mine that has never offered to trash the other was a friends that had been known to trash on occasion but had been worked with in that department. They were on a older track that was burning out and I think they got frustrated. No snow is why it took a while to confirm. Thanks for your thoughts....

I'm not big on shocking the heck out of a young dog without knowing what it is doing... I don't give my dogs the benefit of the doubt.. but if I don't see it with my own eyes.. I'm not going to start shocking...

I want the pup to go.. Seen a lot of people who started shocking young dogs.. created dogs who were scared to get off the road... Or people who shock a young dog as soon as they cross the deer scent (on the road).. developes into dogs who have a hard time roading past anything bad..

If the young gun goes screaming off by itself on a hot race and the old dogs keep on cold trailing.. I generally will start setting the young pup up.. I don't tickle a young dog.. I hit them hard.. Usually only takes once or twice for them to see my side of things...

I don't break them until it becomes a problem.. I have a couple of almost 4 year old dogs that have maybe been shocked on trash 3 or 4 times in their life.. They just never showed much interest in leaving the good track for the bad one.. So why shock the hell out of them when they really don't need it...

I have a bent dog that I drop the pups in with.. Get them on good game to begin with... Seems to help with trash problems...

I did tickle my old dog the other day.. Out in the snow, a bunch of deer tracks around... he was going from track to track trying to suck the ground up through his nose.. Pissed me off when I called him and he ignored me.. Figured a 7 yr old dog should know better.. Gave him a bump.. He gave me a dirty look and continued what he was doing.. I got out to really give it do him.. Walked over and he was going track to track on an old bobcat track amongst all the deer tracks... Guess I was the idiot that day...