BigGameHoundsmen.com

Lay it on me guys-any breed,any color,a line that cosistantly produces dogs that will-
strike and cold trail[cold nosed,strike from the rig]
make all the corners
run with their head up[no track staddlers all the way thru]
locte and tree in big timber.
I'm serious on this,I'm allways looking for something better,or ways to improve my pack.When I get 2 dogs doing the exact same thing-as long as it's good.I usually pick my favorite 1 and sell the other,to try and fill another hole that might be in my pack at that time.If I could keep as many dogs as I'd like,there's been a couple here in the recent past I wished I'd kept.Hind sight is allways 20/20.
Anyway give me some feed back,I'm all ears hoping to find something I'd really like to try.
Tim 541-912-6464

Tim

You should get a hold of Nick... I heard he is sitting on a male out of that last litter he raised out of his Mabel and my Brisco.. The male will turn 1 next week.. Hasn't done much with him.. Tall and leggy... The genes are all there.... Just needs something done with him...

when you find that line please let me know.

Tim, I think trying those dogs that Dadsdogboy has, if you could get one, would be your best bet as far as the balance of traits your describing(except maybe locate), just because that seems to be what they have been breeding for, for a long time. I know there are dogs out west that can do what you're talking about, the refinement of those traits is not consistant. Rigging, cold trailing, headsup runners and big timber locaters all in one basket is a tall order and what, of course, west coast bobcat hunters would all like for the most part. There is almost a contradition in terms when you put all these traits in one dog. For instance, cold trailing might involve a bit of slower trail work to really be cold trailing and for the guy who wants a headsup runner, that slower trialing depending on how old the track is might piss you off, while the speed demon trailer might piss you off because they can't locate in a 10ft(on the butt) doug fir until they're 5 y.o. The balance is perfection and seems to be an elusive type in the dog world. I've always said there is no such thing as perfection, every dog has its hole and finding a dog with the lions share of the traits you like most is a settlement most people come to. I personally don't think you want a cold nosed dog, but a super smart medium nosed dog. They will put more game up per year in good bobcat country. Or a mixed pack of all the good traits who know how to work together.

I've got a couple smart,medium nosed dogs.1 that is cold nosed and a good locate and tree dog,who has learned to speed up[not be sticky].But the corners and locate/tree is where I lack the most.The cold nose is very important to me,I never pass up a cold track they try to work,even if it shoots most of the day.My Suzie dog is probably the second coldest nosed rig dog I've seen work,next to her aunt Dewy Walton's Pepper dog.I,m looking for this kinda nose and locate and tree,with an improvement on the corners[maybe it's independence].
Cobalt,as the other day on the phone,I'm impressed with your knowledge and honesty,and overall understanding on dogs.Dadsdogboy has some fine hounds,but talking with him,they sound simalar to our running dogs[they can possess acold nose,and handle a track fast]so I guess I probably am looking for a little more lion oriented type dog,who'll drift a track well without getting more than a few feet from it.
I believe it's not one type of dog,that catches alot of game,but a combination of different types of dogs working together to achieve the most success.
Tim Pittman

i would breed to what you already have and try to balance it out . you know your weaknesses. ad a stud to those cold nosed bitches that is a layup type treedog . that also meets the most of your other criteria possible .i balanced out my line by adding more tree and every pup out of the last litter is a treedog . it also added some louder mouths which i wasnt looking for , but definately dont mind .

It takes team effort to catch cat on dry ground.
Start dogs, Fast track runners that will get way out there
& find where the cat went after the jump.
And locaters
I know guys in Tex that catch 200 to 300 cats a year
& they do dot have any one dog that
can even come close to catching a cat by them selves maybe
only by accident.
There might be a one dog pack somewhere.
I would like to see him.

edit

Hello Tim,

I really enjoyed the phone visit the other day. I hope Mr. Dewey made it home safe and sound.

This is a good topic to discuss…the perfect do it all Hound…oh to have just one in a lifetime. For us, even with Dads success in breeding BOBCAT Hounds, the perfect Hound just does not happen often if ever.

As you have noted and as per our phone conversation “Consistent Tree Locating” is the primary weakness in Dads line of Hounds. Glen and I are trying to work thru this by spending time at the tree when we do tree one to encourage this behavior. Also by using the Paintball gun and repeatedly treeing a Cat this behavior is encouraged and reinforced. We are hoping that by the time some of Glen’s and our Hounds reach that golden age of 4 years old, they will be locating constantly!

Cobalt wrote:

"Tim, I think trying those dogs that Dadsdogboy has, if you could get one, would be your best bet as far as the balance of traits your describing(except maybe locate), just because that seems to be what they have been breeding for, for a long time.

I personally don't think you want a cold nosed dog, but a super smart medium nosed dog."

We would agree with Cobalt, a SMART medium nosed Hound in GOOD scenting conditions will produce more Game than a COLD nosed Hound in any condition.

Again what truly is meant by the term COLD nosed? Dad defines it as a Hound who can move a track forward after time has passed since the Game has left the track or moving a newer track in BAD scenting conditions!

Cobalt and Hipshooter both wrote great comments about having a “Pack” who collectively brings all the traits necessary which will bring the quarry to Tree or Bay! Big N Blue pointed out last year why most successful Bobcat Hunters will not run their Hounds with other Hunters Hounds as to be successful a CAT pack has to “Run like a Well Oiled Machine”!

As we have discussed, Treeing is a weakness for us. However one locating Treedog can fix that problem. Where we hunt it is much more important to have Hounds who can bring the Cat to Bay or Tree. By adding a roll player for just that purpose (we hope that the Treeing bug will bite some of the others) can solve our dilemma.

"I believe it's not one type of dog,that catches alot of game,but a combination of different types of dogs working together to achieve the most success." Tim you said it best right here! The Football Team analogy again, is what works where we Hunt, a Pack where each Hound has its job to do, and must do it well for the Pack to be successful….all areas are different.

Tim, you mentioned that you might want a Hound more like a "Lion" Hound. I take it that you mean a Hound who is a more methodical Hound who follows a track more closely? We would think that for a Bobcat, a Hound who will dirft the the Track forward and find where the Cat is going would be a better fit than a Hound who is telling you where the Cat has been...just Dad and my thoughts.

But the PERFECT Hound…ahh, what we all want, but like finding that “10” at the beach, few of us will find it and when we do we will probably find out that we can not afford either one!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

I find myself somewhere in the middle. I enjoy having colder nosed dogs and I am willing to let them grind out older tracks assuming it isn't first part of my hunting day. I also like when the medium to hotter nosed dogs explode on the box. Less time to get a critter jumped, which is my favorite part of the chase.

I have also always thought of myself as more of a coach than anything else. Trying to pick the right players for the team. Judging conditions to help determine the right strategy for the hunt at hand. Watching and learning the athletes skills and attributes to determine the best way for all of us to improve.

I have been fortunate to have hunted with some very good dogs. I would have to say that the most likely way to be successful is with a pack of dogs. Each one possessing its own "specialty" to help end the chase at the tree. I have owned dogs that could do it all. They could catch cats all by themselves. But even the best couldn't hold a candle to a well managed pack of hounds, all bringing their own exceptional skills and traits to make them a better part of the overall team.

So while I also continue to search for the mystical perfect hound. It is probably best to just accept that I have to feed a few extras if I want to get under trees. Just my take on things.

Tim you better give one of Topper Agains offspring a try, crossed with the right female and I think they have alittle to ad to the bobcat world. They are along ways from perfect but sure wouldnt hurt to have one in the pack. later, Andy

Bobcat hunting on dry ground is sometimes
very hard to get a cat going.
That said, there is a difference between a cold
nosed dog & a start dog.
A start dog should be colder nosed than the average dog.
but a really cold nosed dog I do not want.
I have had a few that could trail a cat,
but the other dogs could never open.
Not even after a hour or more.
There is a happy medium. I think.
If all dogs are not barking in less than an hout I want to look for another cat.
Some dogs are really good dogs, after the cat is started by another dog, but they can never start one by them selves. A good start dog just has that extra little part of his brain for that. They just know how & where to look for a track. A good start dog is a must for bobcats or you won,t get much done.

I'm not to greedy I'll settle for three or a dozen, start to finish do it all anywhere anytime all the time catdogs. and i don't care about the color they don't even have to have chrome. actually i'm happy to have decent hounds that get better till they can't keep up with the improvements physically.

just breed to shawns "blue". problem solved.

I'm still waiting for some more answers to the the questions.As far as cold nosed debating,I think there are some fellas on here from the desert who can vouch for what type and level of cold nose I expect from a dog.That being said,I'm looking for consistency in the traits I inquired about-cold nose,pickup the head as the track progresses,stay tight to the track[not running and looking===LOOSES] have the ability and breeding to be locate and tree dogs.
We have dogs like this once in while up here in the Northwest,but as I said I'm opened minded to colors,different regions,papered or grade.If there are dogs that consistantly show these traits-I want some of it.

I'd like to throw you another curve-ANYBODY HAVE DOGS WHO CONSISTANTLY,TURN THEMSELVES AROUND OR KNOW IF THEY'RE BACKWARDS?
Tim