An aswer for Tmalone
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:57 pm
Mr. Tom,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We have been finishing up our Florida trip and time seems to evaporate as fast as the water does in this Florida heat!
We ended up catching 18, treeing 14, and catching the Hounds off of three others, in 37 very tough days of Bobcat Hunting.
Tmalone wrote “I was wondering how that mark s dog was bred that you use in your lines, and also what is the irish dog you talk about, i have been reading some of these older bob cat posts and find this very interesting, thank you for your time.
yours in sport,
tom”
Dad decided to use Ch. Mark S. in his program to breed Bobcat specific Hounds as Mark S. and his progeny had proven themselves on Grey Fox and Bobcat in the Bad Briers found in the second growth “Piney Woods” of East Texas.
Mark S. was passing on Nose, Mouth, Stamina, and the BRAINS to use all three of the others. Dad likes to say that God gave a Bobcat brains in place of the large Lungs he gave a Fox or Yote. Therefore a “Bobcat Hound” to be successful more often than not, darn sure better have a healthy dose of BRAINS to solve the intricate RIDDLES that a Bobcat leaves!
Ole Mark had progeny that not only were able to express these traits, but were adaptable to different areas and styles of Fox Hunting. Mr. Clifford Clark in Virginia took a Mark S grandson, Gangster Jake (sired by Magic Mark) and bred some of the best Red Fox Hounds seen in that traditional and historic Fox Hunting country. Mr. Mel Clarke in West Virginia took another Mark son (Michigan Mark) and developed a line of Hounds that gave the Reds and Greys in the Mountains along the Ohio River fits for 50 years.
This adaptability along with the above mentioned traits and their being highly heritable, fit what Dad wanted in his “Bobcat” Hound.
Below is an add from the Hunters Horn from 1960 that Mr. Hinkle Schillings (the man who Bred, raised, hunted, and Stood Mark S.) ran that shows ole Mark and his sire as well as Grand sire.
Three times over the 50+ years that Dad has been breeding his Hounds he was able to go to one of the men mentioned above and get a Like Bred hound to integrate into his breeding program. Unfortunately these men are either no longer with us or not able to Hunt and breed their Hounds any longer. Dad was able to find a Hound in 2003 in GA who was very closely bred Mark S. on the top and tightly line bred (although not Mark S. bred) on the bottom to bring into the program as an Outcross Hound.
This brings me to the “Irish” Hound you ask about. In trying to find an Outcross Hound, Dad has been looking at several different avenues to pursue in bringing fresh blood into his program without taking any steps back as to performance!
He has evaluated the Penn-Marydel Hound, and while they have great noses and plenty of mouth, they are too methodical in Style to do well after Bobcat. They will tell you over and over where a Cat has been and not search out where the Cat has gone.
Mr. Ben Hardaway warned us of this with the Penn-Marydel and said that the Irish Harrier would be the Hound to try. He also said that the French had a Hound called the Porcelaine, that might work. One of Mr. Hardaway’s associates gave us a 12 month old Pup out of an imported Irish Harrier bitch, which was also sired by a top American Fox Hound.
We have been pleasantly surprised by the Pups DRIVE, BIDDABILITY, MOUTH, and Intelligence. He is now 17 months old and contributing in Races as well as any of our Pups. His style is much more like that of the Old Style July (whom are descended from the imported Irish Harriers, Mountain and Muse) on a breakaway Cat ole Irish can put lots of pressure on the Cat like our Cheyenne and Rip and turn the Cat back into the Pack. He is able to hold a track after he gets a pick up and is able to maintain that pressure on the Cat until the Pack arrives.
We will breed him to one of our young bitches later this fall to evaluate the F1 offspring; if they show promise we will make the mating again. Then we will breed one of the F1 bitches back into the Clay line and evaluate this F2’s performance. If these Hounds show the same abilities as the Baseline Bred Hounds then we will incorporate this Irish hound into the program.
Hope this answers your questions….feel free to write anytime!
C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We have been finishing up our Florida trip and time seems to evaporate as fast as the water does in this Florida heat!
We ended up catching 18, treeing 14, and catching the Hounds off of three others, in 37 very tough days of Bobcat Hunting.
Tmalone wrote “I was wondering how that mark s dog was bred that you use in your lines, and also what is the irish dog you talk about, i have been reading some of these older bob cat posts and find this very interesting, thank you for your time.
yours in sport,
tom”
Dad decided to use Ch. Mark S. in his program to breed Bobcat specific Hounds as Mark S. and his progeny had proven themselves on Grey Fox and Bobcat in the Bad Briers found in the second growth “Piney Woods” of East Texas.
Mark S. was passing on Nose, Mouth, Stamina, and the BRAINS to use all three of the others. Dad likes to say that God gave a Bobcat brains in place of the large Lungs he gave a Fox or Yote. Therefore a “Bobcat Hound” to be successful more often than not, darn sure better have a healthy dose of BRAINS to solve the intricate RIDDLES that a Bobcat leaves!
Ole Mark had progeny that not only were able to express these traits, but were adaptable to different areas and styles of Fox Hunting. Mr. Clifford Clark in Virginia took a Mark S grandson, Gangster Jake (sired by Magic Mark) and bred some of the best Red Fox Hounds seen in that traditional and historic Fox Hunting country. Mr. Mel Clarke in West Virginia took another Mark son (Michigan Mark) and developed a line of Hounds that gave the Reds and Greys in the Mountains along the Ohio River fits for 50 years.
This adaptability along with the above mentioned traits and their being highly heritable, fit what Dad wanted in his “Bobcat” Hound.
Below is an add from the Hunters Horn from 1960 that Mr. Hinkle Schillings (the man who Bred, raised, hunted, and Stood Mark S.) ran that shows ole Mark and his sire as well as Grand sire.
Three times over the 50+ years that Dad has been breeding his Hounds he was able to go to one of the men mentioned above and get a Like Bred hound to integrate into his breeding program. Unfortunately these men are either no longer with us or not able to Hunt and breed their Hounds any longer. Dad was able to find a Hound in 2003 in GA who was very closely bred Mark S. on the top and tightly line bred (although not Mark S. bred) on the bottom to bring into the program as an Outcross Hound.
This brings me to the “Irish” Hound you ask about. In trying to find an Outcross Hound, Dad has been looking at several different avenues to pursue in bringing fresh blood into his program without taking any steps back as to performance!
He has evaluated the Penn-Marydel Hound, and while they have great noses and plenty of mouth, they are too methodical in Style to do well after Bobcat. They will tell you over and over where a Cat has been and not search out where the Cat has gone.
Mr. Ben Hardaway warned us of this with the Penn-Marydel and said that the Irish Harrier would be the Hound to try. He also said that the French had a Hound called the Porcelaine, that might work. One of Mr. Hardaway’s associates gave us a 12 month old Pup out of an imported Irish Harrier bitch, which was also sired by a top American Fox Hound.
We have been pleasantly surprised by the Pups DRIVE, BIDDABILITY, MOUTH, and Intelligence. He is now 17 months old and contributing in Races as well as any of our Pups. His style is much more like that of the Old Style July (whom are descended from the imported Irish Harriers, Mountain and Muse) on a breakaway Cat ole Irish can put lots of pressure on the Cat like our Cheyenne and Rip and turn the Cat back into the Pack. He is able to hold a track after he gets a pick up and is able to maintain that pressure on the Cat until the Pack arrives.
We will breed him to one of our young bitches later this fall to evaluate the F1 offspring; if they show promise we will make the mating again. Then we will breed one of the F1 bitches back into the Clay line and evaluate this F2’s performance. If these Hounds show the same abilities as the Baseline Bred Hounds then we will incorporate this Irish hound into the program.
Hope this answers your questions….feel free to write anytime!
C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy