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Is there any way at all to tell the difference between a hound that is what you might call "stupid" and one that is extremely stubborn/determined?

depends on what you are doing, if the dog shows intelliegence in any and most other areas its probably stubborn....if nots it probably retarded

nmplott wrote:depends on what you are doing, if the dog shows intelliegence in any and most other areas its probably stubborn....if nots it probably retarded

+1

In this case,I mean stubborness/determination in a negative sense, such as continuation of bad and annoying behaviors despite a dog being corrected what seems like hundreds of times for the same things.

Is it possible that he's doing them (bad behaviors) because he's bored?

In most instances, no.

Can you be more specific? There are time when I think every one of our seven dogs is stupid. Hunting dogs are hard wired and sometimes it more productive to redirect them than try to change them.

I think hounds have been bred to do one thing for so long they are alot more instincts than brain. I read a book where Ben Lilly was quoted as saying "the longer the ears the shorter the brain" don't know if he really said that but it sure seems true sometime. Hounds can be dissappointing sometimes if you are used to cattle or bird dogs. Hounds have been bred for a long time to do one thing and do it well. If a dog refuses to change and obey me I will just get rid of him.

They're typical dog issues (jumping on beds/furniture, stealing clothing/shoes, chewing household items, constant barking) but this dog does not seem to consistently understand the direct discipline/correction that has been clearly laid out countless times. He is not deprived of anything that I feel would cause him to be destructive out of boredom.Yes, he has many instinctual hound traits that he shows, but those are encouraged. Its simply the little things that he refuses to or cannot understand even through consistent correction.

There are three types of dogs. Smart dogs, stupid dogs, and ignorant dogs...

To me what you are describing is an ignorant dog. Here at my place those type of dogs time is numbered. The way I see it I have to like and be able to live with the dogs 24/7 - 365 days a year, hunting or not. I can't stand barking, jumping, digging, chewing, and flat out rude behavior. Not coming when called, not loading up, trying to rush out of the dogbox, spilling buckets, eating random crap - all seem to go hand and hand with an ignorant dog. Most are just rattleheaded, hyper dogs, without much sense of purpose... Truely Stupid dogs in my experiance also seem to be the shy ones, as they typically don't understand why they are being corrected for misbehaving. Smart dogs can be HARD HEADED, if they know they are smarted than you, then thats your fault and not theirs.

So your problems are with him just during his house dog hours? If you enjoy hunting with him I think it might be worth working on him.
My biggest suggestion is never let him out of sight in the house, it's what I do with puppies and at this point you'll basically have to bring him back to a puppy level and retrain his brain. He should never get free roam of the house without you in supervision. If you can't watch him put him in a crate or tie him to an eye bolt you attach to the wall. You'll be working towards eventually trusting him in the house but that probably won't be for quite a while. If he barks in the crate put a shock collar on him...not a bark collar and you shock him at the appropriate time...sometimes you might be ready to give up before you finally reach that point but unless he is seriously retarted as long as you put in the time and CONSISTENCY he will quit.
They say a dogs brain does not retain the correlation between bad behavior and a correction for it for more than a minute if even that long. So if you find where he sqrewed up 3 minutes agao and punish him for it now it only makes him think you are untrustworthy.
What I do with my pups when they have something they should'nt is say 'no' 'thats mine, drop it' I get it from them (without saying anything else - I just takes cause its mine) and then I give them one of their toys and tell them 'good' or 'this is yours'.
I don't know maybe this is all stuff you have already tried.
At the risk of sounding kind of silly I have to ask do you ever watch 'The Dog Whisperer'? The Ceaser Milan guy? I know its hollywood crap but I think most people can actually learn stuff about dogs by watching his show, he deals with a lot of dogs that have the same problems yours has. Ignore the freakshow dog owners and just watch how he handles dogs...no I don't think you have to say 'shhhccciiiittttttt'.
Just watch him and make it your own thing.
A pretty good website to look at is http://www.leerburg.com they have been raising and training malinois and GSD's for protection and ringsport for years. They have a lot of knowledge of house dog type problems and a lot of videos, you can also post questions to them on there.
In the end he's your dog and if you like him then work on him.
That being said I myself have to like a dogs personality for them to live with me, if you and a dog do not get along sometimes someone else might get along with that dog just fine...just like you won't like all humans, well you won't like all dogs either (and I mean it could be the most awesome hunting dog ever but if you don't like them - you don't like them)...but someone else might.

Redwood Coonhounds reply is worth reading a couple of times.

The question for you to answer is whether the dog is ignorant? in which case the best option is to do the world a favor and cull him.
Or is he just smarter than you, in which case you may (a.) see if someone a little sharper wants to give him a test drive or (b.) listen to liz and learn real quick how to get the upper hand on your dog

Pat

This is an unpopular opinion, but I believe that 99% of the training problems with dogs are the handler not the dog. That doesn’t mean that some dogs aren’t harder or different to train; it means the handler isn’t finding what it takes to communicate with the dog. That’s why it’s popular for guys to just cull dogs with unwanted behavior instead of putting in the time to work with them. Culling isn’t a bad way to do it because sometimes it just not worth the time to get the results you want. I also want to be clear that I’m talking about dog behaviors not genetic traits. Unfortunately a lot of people mistake behavior for genetic traits, but that’s a whole other discussion. I will also ad that some dogs are just tougher to make house dogs than others. We have some hounds and terriers that are great house dogs, and some that are just miserable. I know the miserable ones are going to take more work that I’m willing to put into them to make them into great house dogs. They are great hunters therefore I put up with their poor house behavior.

Liz ODell wrote:They say a dogs brain does not retain the correlation between bad behavior and a correction for it for more than a minute if even that long. So if you find where he sqrewed up 3 minutes agao and punish him for it now it only makes him think you are untrustworthy.

It’s more like seconds. The research shows that dogs live in their current thought which is ever changing. That doesn’t mean they don’t retain and memory, because they do, they just can’t connect events like people do. If a dog is peeing on the floor, then it’s living in that thought. Once it’s done and starts to walk away, it’s not living in that thought and not the thought about peeing on the floor. Therefore you only have seconds to correct a behavior, because once the behavior is done, they are no longer thinking about it. This is one thing that Cesar has right. He really preaches timing and shows how you have to correct the behavior when it’s happening not afterwards.

I agree with keeping the dog in sight when in the house. I’ve read about and practiced it. I’ve leashed the dogs to me every time it’s in the house. That way everything they do it in your sight. I did this with a two year old lurcher that destroyed the house the first couple months we had her. After about a month of being leased to me every second she was in the house, she was 80% better. She’s not perfect but much better considering I should have put in more time working on the problem.

Thank you all for the tips and advice. I have tried and do many of the suggested things already. And really emphasize on consistent correction at the correct time for the seemingly correct reasons. This hound is young at 17 months, and I hope that with aging and his recent castration taking effect, that he can mellow a bit at home. In my opinion, his nature seems to classify him as one of those dogs that takes above average time and work to get anything accomplished in the realms of behavior and manners anyway, not necessarily his hunting. Retardation? Determination? Ignorance? Intelligence? I still don't know...

hounds are not always going to make house dogs and some just wont do well in the house but will be rocking in the hills.