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well before bear hunting was illgal in oregon that is what i did since i was 7 years old with my dad. the first day i went we treed 3 and it never slowed down untill i was 17. so what makes a bear dog the man or the dog. i say a little of both but mostly the man. i was raised that when the dogs caught the bear to get in ther as fast as posible and kill it before something bad happens.. when you let the dogs know you are coming they will bay longer . we have killed bears on the ground the next day but it wasnt because we werent trying.

jc

ive found the best beardog is one that doesnt care if your coming or not. they just live for it . same as any dog that runs game . i certainly dont have to encourage my beagle to run a rabbit all i have to do is take my eyes off her for awhile and she will be headed for the backwoods on her own to pound them .backing your dogs is a good thing not saying it isnt . but real game driven dogs with heart go to exhaustion.alot of guys interupt this with training and harness this desire with shocking collars and such so they can call them off. my main dog i have studded to all these years is a dog that litterally run bear until he drops from exhaustion i have run him down where he is so exhausted he is walking on rubber legs and barking on trail.you cant put that into a hound it has to be there from the start.

a real beardog is made not bred . the man that showes up every time will make the dog . i have seen more people f up dogs than make them .

jc

you can make an average dog, great dogs have it in um from the git go. I'm not talking weekend warriors, I'm talking an all out houndsmen. Dogs have to be in brush to learn.

Ive had my dogs stay under tree all nite still there in afternoon they didnt get that way by treeing and me not getting there

coastrangecathunting wrote:a real beardog is made not bred . the man that showes up every time will make the dog . i have seen more people f up dogs than make them .

jc

i respectfully disagree. it helps to bring it out if they have it in them . for instance try making a coward beardog grab fir on a live bear. or a slow dog be fast . take a basset hound to the greyhound races and see if they come in first and then tell me the greyhound didnt have it bred into them to be fast .we can steer our hounds in the right direction and back them like you say to bring out the best in them .or fup ,but in the end you chose the dogs your hunting because of there breeding to get the job done. if pomeranians were all i needed to hunt bear and get the job done coldtrailing ,running,and fighting a bear i would be feeding them. there small and eat less. according to you all i would have to do is show up every time to make them right.

i was raised that when the dogs caught the bear to get in ther as fast as posible and kill it before something bad happens.. when you let the dogs know you are coming they will bay longer . we have killed bears on the ground the next day but it wasnt because we werent trying.

I was raised this way as well. Yep bad bear bred dogs do respond accordingly in the hands of a hunter with this mentality. They learn to stick and why but maybe we should say the bear(s) makes or determines both.

coastrangecathunting wrote: i was raised that when the dogs caught the bear to get in ther as fast as posible and kill it before something bad happens.. when you let the dogs know you are coming they will bay longer.

I usually try to get in there as quick as possible, because it's less expensive. I do think that the dogs respond to seeing you in there, but I don't think it makes/breaks if a dog is going to stick. The dogs do seem to have a little more bottom in them though, when they get to "win" after a bay up.

Bear dogs have the right stuff in them from the time their eyes open. The only thing a guy really needs to do is get them focused on bear and he should be good to go. I think there are many things that a guy can do along the way to set them back or to hamper a certain hunt (by being an idiot), but good bear dogs will usually fight through an idiot like me getting in their way.

i do agree the breed of the dog has alot to do with it but just because it is out of good bear dogs dosnt mean you dont haft to have its back when times get tough. by being there for your dog it will make them stay longer knowing you are coming.

jc

coastrangecathunting wrote:i do agree the breed of the dog has alot to do with it but just because it is out of good bear dogs dosnt mean you dont haft to have its back when times get tough. by being there for your dog it will make them stay longer knowing you are coming.

jc

this is true for alot of dogs but havent you seen or had that special dog that stays because of the game and not the fact that your coming and is there even after the otherdogs may of quit .the type dog that goes until exhaustion . the type dog that does this everytime out .what your doing i couldnt agree more with.to me a true beardog doesnt think he needs any help.imo. your certainly entitled to your opinion jc so i will bother you no longer on this subject. have a good one. kordog.

I had a old time hunter tell me years ago that behind ever top dog is a top hunter. There is just a difference in people as there is in dogs. Some hunters can get the best out of a dog, some can bring the worst out in a dog and some never know the difference. Dewey

I ve got one of each my female and my male never give up, (not always a good thing) But the female could care less about my presence She is one of the best bear dogs around almost to gritty for her own good, my male totally responds to my presence, he gets extra excited and almost shows off.

[quote="coastrangecathunting"]well before bear hunting was illgal in oregon that is what i did since i was 7 years old with my dad. the first day i went we treed 3 and it never slowed down untill i was 17. so what makes a bear dog the man or the dog. i say a little of both but mostly the man. i was raised that when the dogs caught the bear to get in ther as fast as posible and kill it before something bad happens.. when you let the dogs know you are coming they will bay longer . we have killed bears on the ground the next day but it wasnt because we werent trying.

coastrangecathunting wrote:well before bear hunting was illgal in oregon that is what i did since i was 7 years old with my dad. the first day i went we treed 3 and it never slowed down untill i was 17. so what makes a bear dog the man or the dog. i say a little of both but mostly the man. i was raised that when the dogs caught the bear to get in ther as fast as posible and kill it before something bad happens.. when you let the dogs know you are coming they will bay longer . we have killed bears on the ground the next day but it wasnt because we werent trying.

jc

I have to agree with you. It takes both. You can have a bad hunter as well as a bad dog. Here's my take on this, based on my experience. I had two of the most gritty dogs that would stay with the toughest bear and tree until I got there. They would even stay for several days. If they got tired, they would take turns resting while the other barked tree, because they knew I would not fail to get there. They would even bark themselves horse and still bark tree. These dogs knew when I was ready for the kill. When I had to go into the mazanita brush to kill the bear on the ground, those dogs would back off to let me shoot the bear. If the bear started to come after me, those dogs would all jump that bear to keep him off me. They would actually give there lives to save me. I can tell you that there is no greater experience or joy than to hunt with dogs of this caliber.

I always had a third dog that I was training. I beleive that if you want a good dog, you have to hunt him with good dogs. They learn more from the other dogs than the trainer and they learn it faster, but when they get familliar with what and how you do things, you are also training the dog. I have found that the hunter and his dogs must work as a team, and when that team knows what the other will do, you begin to really enjoy hunting hounds. With all of that said, you still have to train a dog that has the basic essentials of making a good dog. You can't turn a cactus into a dog. The dog must have grit, love to hunt for his master, have staying power, a good strong voice that can be heard, and a nose that can work the air instead of the ground. Fast dogs don't put their nose to the ground, they hold there head up and run like hell, as fast as they can. You guys that hunt cat and coons know what a smart dogs is like; Ever have a dog that taps the tree and makes a big circle to find out if the game has jumped out and moved on? How do you supposed they learned how to do that? Man didn't teach him that, or did he.

Another learned lesson by man is when you lose your dogs and they start comming out. Do you find your dogs scattered all over the country side? Do they come out together? Do they come out where you started the track?
When I first started hunting, my dogs would be all over the place or down the road. When I got wise and started with two good dogs, they always came back to where they started the track and waited for me because they knew I would be waiting and calling for them at that spot.

Another thing that I didn't teach my dogs, was to leave the tree when a stranger approached it first. I had a dog that knew who I was hunting with and who I wasn't hunting with. He would leave the tree and come back to his starting point if a stranger came into the tree. I didn't teach him that.

I always tie my hounds up before shooting a bear out of a tree. I think you all know why. If I ever wounded the bear and it took off down into the canyon, I was asking for trouble if I turned my dogs out on this wounded bear, because my dogs would dive in with the same vorocity as when trying to put him up the tree, but now the bear is pissed and wants revenge and doesn't tree, he fights them on the ground until he kills them all. I knew that and it made me get to them as fast as I could to kill that bear. Even getting there as fast as I could, wasn't good enough, because the dogs were already gashed open. Sometimes, I caught the bear holding one dog in its arms and biting on the dog while the other dogs fought to distract the bear and let the dog go. When I got with in a few feet of the bear with my gun out, my dogs somehow knew that they should back off and let take take over for the kill.

I can remember a time when I got a 1-1/2 your old Plott male. My dogs took off screaming and the Plott went with them. When I got to the tree he was there but he was curled up at the base of the tree. Wasn't interested in the bear, so I let the bear come out and treed it a few times. Still no interest. I tried hissing him on the tree. He just didn't have any interest. When I shot the bear out of the tree, I only wounded it. I turned the dogs loose on the bear and I could hear them fighting it on the ground a short way down the canyon. When I got down to them I could see a clear meadow but couldn't see the dogs. I ran over to where I heard them fighting. They were in a washout trench. That Plott was nose to nose with that bear and pulling hair. I killed the bear and fed the dogs some liver as I always do. It's their trophy for catching game, and it makes them want to catch all the more. Well, the next bear race, that Plott was at the tree but he wasn't treeing, he was just milling around the tree, so I let the bear come out and run him again. When I got to the second tree he was treeing.
With that out of the way, I decided to put him up on the box with one of my good dogs. It didn't take him but a couple of times to learn that he has to sound off when he smells a bear scent. I decided to put him up on the box by himself to see what he would do. I started roading down the road. It wasn't long before he opened to let me know he had something. I turned one of my good dogs out first to check it out. Damed if my good dog didn't take off screaming. I turned the others loose and made the bear tree. They were all treeing. Now, you tell me if it doesn't take a trainer and a good dog to teach a dog how to hunt.

When yy Walker/Blue tick mix would run a lion, he learned something on his own, because I didn't teach him what I'm about to tell you. When he ran bear, he chopped all the way and never stopped. But if he ran a lion, he would chop once on the box to let me know he had a track, and when I turned him loose, he ran silent until he treed. That dog some how new that if he barked on a lion, it was going to be a long ass race. Instead, he went in silent, snuck up on the lion and put him up quick. I have never had a lion race that was more than a 300-500 yards.

I hope I have been some help to young hunters.

Remeber, if you want good dogs, be careful who you hunt with. I beleive that hunting alone or with only your dogs, makes for good hunting and less chasing to find the dogs.

Buckles makes some good points. Simply put I think the dog has to have the natural ability in them and they need to be put on the game and the hunter has to bring that ability out in them.

I like to use the athlete analogy. I used to love to play hockey. I was on skates since the time I could walk, skated almost every day during the winter. I was an O.K. player, but I was never going to make the NHL, no matter what coaches coached me. I just didn't have that natural talent. I saw guys that did and even coached kids that did. I think it is the same with bear dogs, some will be good but others with more natural ability will be better with the same training.