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what are some things u do with pups to see if they will make a catdog . myself and warner 5 kinda do things similar. i like to have pups follow me and i jump over a woven wire fence . does the pup sit there and bark ' false tree' or do they try to circle around or go under . i also like to go out in a hay field before it is cut and have the pups chase me , i run in a strait line then at the end make a tight half circle to see how far they over run the track. please tell what u look for in pups . the age pups im talking about are 2 to 4 months . i think this is a real important time for pups, makes the rest of there training alot easier imo.

jc

jc, once I choose which pup I am to keep (crap shoot) I let them run loose from day one they learn an aweful lot on their own just being loose 24/7 until they reach the age they are starting to wonder to far and too long. Andy

copy that andy. i live next to road so when they are loose i have to keep a close i on them. the litter me and warner have together are up at his dads ranch . he has lost them twice because they are following his old talker dog huntin. they turned 2 months yesterday and have already been on a couple cat races.

jc

Yeah, I was going to join in on the conversation before it got to late, but I was too busy chasing around talker puppies. Today we took a walk, put in a gate, then I think the pups bayed up a couple bob tracks in an old half dried up mud hole what ever it was they sure gave it hell until they thought they got the better of it . Ough ya old talker dog lost his parential rights for a month or so. that will show him!

I thought I might give a little progress report with these stormy, talker pups. J.C. I'm pretty sure, well that isnt true. I'm absolutly positive these pups are going to chase, bay, stretch and kill. Skunks. Today I thought they all fell into a hole or a narrow dry creek, but upon further inspection I realized they stumbled onto Mr. Pepie Lepiew and crew. 4 skunks later they decided they had enough skunk. It was the most fun I've had with them yet. I'm still laughing my ass off. Good stuff. John.

Looking back at the last four pups I raised the two that made the cut and are turning in to real nice cat & fox dog. Showed it from the time I brought them home @ 6 weeks old, I would take the pups one at a time shut them in one room then lay a hot dog trail( touching it to the ground about every three to four feet ) for them after a couple of times I would see them developing at first it was nose to the ground then the head would come up then they quit running the track and would come out of the room with nose in the air running though the house til they would locate the hot dog.(on a fresh track on a older track you could see them wanting to lift their heads as soon as they could ) the two that didn't make the cut never put it together as pups like the two I'm still feeding. this was four pup from two different blood lines the two that made it are from the same blood line

I have alway's had best luck with the pups that show the most gamey nature. Some show drive and desire very early. I want them to hunt for them, not me. These pups are the one's I want. They alway's seem to give 100%. but thats just my 2cents. thankyou. John.

Warner5 wrote:I have alway's had best luck with the pups that show the most gamey nature. Some show drive and desire very early. I want them to hunt for them, not me. These pups are the one's I want. They alway's seem to give 100%. but thats just my 2cents. thankyou. John.

well said.

I agree with Mr Andy. Nothing like raising a pup on the outside although I know a lot of people aren't able to do that.

About 10 years ago I raised a litter of pups here at the ranch. I finally decided which one I was going to keep, then found homes for the rest of them. As my pup (Buckshot) got to be 2 to 3 months old he found out what jackrabbits were, here around the house. I have old grass fields all around the house here and back then quite a few jackrabbits. Anyway Buckshot got to trailing and running rabbits here around the house. Lots of mornings I would be woken up by Buckshot trailing on rabbits. I would just lay there in bed, listening to him trail. One morning, as I was listening to him trail, I heard him jump. Boy... he was letting it out. He was right out in front of the house. I jumped up and ran to the window to watch. He was about 30 yards from the rabbit running by sight and he was letting the hammer down. Well, I have a hog wire fence running from the house down to the county road in front of the house. This rabbit ran through the fence and kept going. Buckshot ran up to the fence, stopped and just stood there watching this rabbit for about 45 seconds run away from him. He never said a word just stood there watching. ALL of a sudden he broke toward the house, never saying a word, like a fire was under him. I thought to myself "Are you going crazy). He ran up the fence line to the house, through the pens, under 2 different gates, into the field the rabbit went into, back down the fence line where the rabbit had crossed, then hit the trail and yonder he went. When he cut the trail of the rabbit he went to opening again.

Well, I was pretty proud of my pup. I thought I might have made a good choice and I did, he made a good cat dog. He made a good trailer, if they got stumped on the trail he would go look deep, and he was always independent. Independent being one of the qualities any good dog has to have.

I didn't do anything to teach him when Buckshot was a pup, besides coming to me when called and being friends with me, my real training started when he became about 6 months of age and I started hauling him with the older dogs. And then the older dogs done most of the training, I just kept him off off-game.

A pup raised on the outside is kinda like a kid that starts school at pre-k vs a kid that might start school in the 3rd grade. They are just way ahead. They learn how to think on their own, make decisions and I think it helps them be more independent. Not that a pup want make it that doesn't get to be raised on the outside, they are just going to be behind the pups that are. By the time Buckshot was 10 or 11 months old he was starting to trail with the older dogs on cats and I have raised some others that started trailing before that. Anyway you asked about how we started our pups, that's how I like to start mine. Good luck to all and happy hunting. Robbie

I'm going to try something a little different with my new "cat" prospect. So long as I can get them before they are 12 weeks, by the time they are 14 weeks my dogs will heel, sit, lay down, and stay until called to come. If you teach a dog to bark the sky's the limit, but I dont do this because I live in town and I dont want to promote barking. Plus it would only be confusing when i told them to hush, which is learned over time. This teaches a dog to think, or at least helps them understand they have the ability to think. One thing to teach a dog when they have gotten through grade school(handling) is making them sit or just stay but wait and find something you have hidden. I wonder if this trick applied to a drag session would be effective in teaching a dog to "locate" something when the scent or "drag" trail has dissapeared. I wonder if a few of these drag races after learning hide and seek would help push a good dog over the "lose" hurdle??? I'm going to try it. Only time will tell...

To edit this post, I would like to add that I never read of anybody putting their hound through the "clicker style" training on this forum. I don't use the clicker, but it's more or less the same concept. I remember having over 25 hounds at any single time growing up, and that was a small number to some. I remember going to one farm in particular that had about 200 running dogs. Of course he didn't run them, but he owned a coyote pen so I guess he started and sold them. Looking back, I have wondered if a person would have incorporated this early form of learning instead of just feeding and dumping dogs with older dogs, if 1 or 2 dogs would have been sufficient.... Instead of the usual 6 or 10 running at a time. I know this is getting into the whole "how many dogs?" debate, but again, with all the knowledge on this forum I have yet to read about any training beyond 'come' or just watching them when they are running around. I don't teach my dogs to jump through rings, but do believe teaching them to think as puppies through handling lessons makes them a better dog. I just don't know if it would help a cat dog think it through. Now I'm in over my head again....

I have a 2 year old femail that handles very, very, well. Most of the time I take her with the pups on our walks. For the most part the pups follow her lead. They will learn to handle good enough for now just by watching and copying her. For me and the way I train, this handle will be good enough for me until the pups get much older. I believe to many rules applied to soon can take away from the pups confidence. Making it scared of its surroundings leaving it unable to learn and develope its natural ability. I size up a pup on its natural ability, lacking actual hunting experience thats all they have. I do my best not to do anything that will take away from this learning process. Those of you that can put a good handle on a young hound and then still get the most out of it. My hats off to you, I always seem to do more damage than good if I focus on a handle first. Robby and Andy I pretty much raise mine the same way. It seems pups learn street smarts(for lack of a better word), this leaves less to surprise and scare them once they start getting hunted at a higher level. Making it easier for the pup to learn(more trainable). Thankyou, John.

No doubt independance is on the line when you go through hand and verbal commands 101 with them. When you go to the woods with them after a couple weeks of training, that same puppy that didn't pay you any attention all of a sudden thinks " oh crap I better check in and make sure he didn't tell me to lay down or something". You can watch it hit em like a light switch. It's crucial to teach them "free" at the end of each session. When you go to the woods you tell them "free" or "cast" them and then it is up to you to not even look at them for a couple of hours no matter how many times they come back to see if you told them something and they might not have heard it. Ideally, get a pup at 47-51 days old, let them run wild in the woods or on the farm until they are 10 weeks. Then the petting and loving and bonding and trust building starts and continues until 12 weeks. At 12 weeks... First of all I'm your master, second of all you're a coonhound, and third of all you're a member of the family.

Talking about teaching pups. Here's a mistake I made with my pups back about 5 or 6 years ago. These are pups a little older, 6 to 7 months old. I start hauling mine at about 6 months old with the old dogs. But when I started putting a pup down with the older dogs and I'd see a deer, coyote,coon, or any off game cross the road in front of the truck and the pup would see it and break and run to where it crossed, hit the trail and leave on this off track, I would wait till the pup went to opening on the track before I would shock him to bring him back. Sometimes the pup might be in there 75 to 100 yards before he would open on trail, then I would shock him. Now I was shocking the pup for running off game but I finally realized the pup wasn't taking it that way. He thought he was getting shocked for opening on the trail, thus causing a tight mouthed dog. Now, I correct my pups as soon I know they are astraddle of the track and smelling it and before they open. They need to think the smell of that thing is why they're getting corrected and not because he barked. I also know we are not always going to see the trash that our dogs are running, then you just have to do what you gotta do.

As time goes on, and the pup progresses, and he sees off game cross the road, I'll let him check it out, but then he better go on up the road.

Timeing has a lot to do with correcting a dog. You have to catch the dog in the act and correct right then in order for the dog to know what he is getting corrected for. If our timeing is off the dog doesn't have a clue why he is being corrected.

Thank goodness for Tri Tronics and their variable intensity control. Lots of good dogs have been ruined by over shocking. Dogs are a lot like people, some can take electricity and some can't. I've seen some people grab a hot wire and just hold on, I can't do it. Some dogs just get scared to death just shocking on level 2 or 3, these a good buz might be all you need. Then others might have to be hit on level 6 to get'em stopped and they just run right on by you hunting, don't phase them a bit. Every dog is different, we just have to learn each dogs limits. I like to always start out on intensity level 1 and go to working up till I can see that I am getting their attention. Just my thoughts. Robbie

So the pups are coming along very well, their gamey side is starting to really show. It wont be long and a by site deer race will start, then their nose's will take over. once that starts I will have more problems than I want. My plan is to pick up a road kill deer and set it up on one of the trails we walk, once the pups come up on the dead deer no doubt they will investigate. But I will be ready with a limby switch to scold them off the deer. I figure this will start the breaking process without taking away from their desire to hunt and explore. What I would also like to do is get some sort of hand held device that emits the same tone as the shocking collars so the pups would hear this tone while I am scolding them. I am hoping if I do this right over the coarse of the next couple months. I will not need to shock these pups once they become dogs very much or at all. Does this sound like logical thinking or is it more wishful thinking? Also any idea's on where I could get a device like I mentioned? I want these pups to hear the tone at the same instant I start scolding them all together in the pack(I do not want to single any of them out yet) just simple little scoldings with a limby switch and a tone. Any advice or ideas will be appreciated. While all of you are thinking I am going to do a little touch-up reading with wick. Thanks for the help. John.

Mr. John,
Have you thought about just putting the real thing on'em the shock collar? Just be SURE you have it on tone. Just before you apply the limby switch give'em a good tone. Then latter on as they get older, if they would run at a deer and you have to stop'em, maybe they would make the connection with that thing around their neck. "When I get toned I'm gonna get a good switching".

If they don't stop running the deer you then have the option to do whatever you want to do. If you wanted to stop it, tone then apply levels 1 or 2, just maybe they might relate the light shock to the switching, if they do, your battle is won.

I've seen some dogs that "I think" know the difference between the shock collar and a dummy collar. If you use some different device (different weight, smell, feel) to make the tone, they might not relate this device to the real thing(tone of e-collar). Just my thoughts. Good luck and whatever you do, I hope it works.