BigGameHoundsmen.com

what is the point in registering your dog? i hog and bear hunt and i know for a fact that papers dont tree a bear or bay a hog. you can always get a dog ukc registered (i dont care what kind of mutt you have, they will register it) you can get them registered while there puppies or when there adults. i understand some people will pay an extra 50-200 dollars for papers on a dog. papers dont show what the dog does it just shows what there mom and dad was and what the bloodline is. i just need to know why people register there hunting dogs. i appreciate any positive feedback.

To continue to keep a record of the bloodline for future generations.

Redwood Coonhounds wrote:To continue to record of the bloodline for future generations.

sometimes i have a single track mind and dont think of the obvious.lol preciate that buddy

but why pay so much for the papers?

I've never known anyone that paid extra for papers. Well bred dogs with a with a good line out of proven dogs just sell for more money. I get anywhere from $300-$400 for my registered pups, and I see mixed bred pups going for $500-$600 all the time. I see accidental litters going for $200.

Just depends on what a person feels there time is worth raising and caring for pups.

I register my dogs, and I participate in events, ect. But the main goal is just to continue to record the breedings to continue the line in the future. I might know what my dogs are and how they are bred, where they came from, but unless they have papers to go with them, 10 years from now, someone who gets a dog off my line, they wouldn't know nothing about it unless they had papers/pedigree.

well i didnt mean like literally pay extra but like dogs with out papers of a certain bloodline would be $400 and dogs with papers of that same bloodline is $500. so what im gettin at is that having papers is only to keep a record of a proven stock of dogs, am i correct. cause papers would be useless if the dogs werent proven, is that correct also?

complete waste of time unless ukc can dna all dogs and pups and start over.....what do you accomplish with ukc registry? papers are only as good as the level of integrity of the person behind the dog. from previous experiences, i can vouch for one thing....it ain't happening. money is the root of all evil and there will always be the select few who will trade papers to suit there agenda. say it is only two or three percent of the crooks? by the time you cross three to seven generations you have pretty well thrown a monkey wrench in to the pedigree.

i have seen this within all breeds and strains. i was recently banned from ukc for refusing to dna a puppy that was dna'd by the breeder. to decline leaves suspicions about the accuracy of the registry transfer. i get this....why mandate a time line for registering a puppy? why not leave it open and when the dog can pass its entry exam into the big dog world...only then should papers be allowed.

HERE IS THE POINT FROM ME TO UKC. I DON'T HAVE TO BREED MY DNA'D DOG TO ANOTHER UNLESS I WANT TO. SO I BREED TO A DOG AND THE PERSON WHO OWNED IT SWITCHED PAPERS WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.(HAPPENS MORE THAN YOU KNOW) this example hound has "pr" papers and i submit an application for litter regisrty.....ukc will take my money GLADLY! and register the entire litter. ukc knows this and does the best it can, this should be on the honor system....but this isn't good enough to solve the real issue.... LACK OF HONESTY AND INTEGRITY!

ukc is nothing more than a money driven business that cares only about the almighty dollar. topped with the power of b.s. like you listen to all day on these forums....super dogs bred to super dogs.....forget registry and put that money towards training a dog and let them speak for themselves. DNA KIT AND 7 GENERATION PEDIGREE WILL BUY ALOT OF GAS... keep track of breeding better dogs to better dogs for hunting purposes and we would have better hounds.

i know this will spark a debate over what is better, registered hounds or grade....even though you hold the papers in your hands....how do you know for sure your "pr' ukc mutt isnt grade?
i would conform if.... 1. ukc would start from square one with 100% dna'd dogs....2. ukc would mandate a dog at least be able to tree a lousy raccoon....one dog alone in the woods, unassisted...i hope my situation is not temporary with ukc, i hope it becomes permanent.jmho.

mike martell wrote:complete waste of time unless ukc can dna all dogs and pups and start over.....what do you accomplish with ukc registry? papers are only as good as the level of integrity of the person behind the dog. from previous experiences, i can vouch for one thing....it ain't happening. money is the root of all evil and there will always be the select few who will trade papers to suit there agenda. say it is only two or three percent of the crooks? by the time you cross three to seven generations you have pretty well thrown a monkey wrench in to the pedigree.

i have seen this within all breeds and strains. i was recently banned from ukc for refusing to dna a puppy that was dna'd by the breeder. to decline leaves suspicions about the accuracy of the registry transfer. i get this....why mandate a time line for registering a puppy? why not leave it open and when the dog can pass its entry exam into the big dog world...only then should papers be allowed.

HERE IS THE POINT FROM ME TO UKC. I DON'T HAVE TO BREED MY DNA'D DOG TO ANOTHER UNLESS I WANT TO. SO I BREED TO A DOG AND THE PERSON WHO OWNED IT SWITCHED PAPERS WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.(HAPPENS MORE THAN YOU KNOW) this example hound has "pr" papers and i submit an application for litter regisrty.....ukc will take my money GLADLY! and register the entire litter. ukc knows this and does the best it can, this should be on the honor system....but this isn't good enough to solve the real issue.... LACK OF HONESTY AND INTEGRITY!

ukc is nothing more than a money driven business that cares only about the almighty dollar. topped with the power of b.s. like you listen to all day on these forums....super dogs bred to super dogs.....forget registry and put that money towards training a dog and let them speak for themselves. DNA KIT AND 7 GENERATION PEDIGREE WILL BUY ALOT OF GAS... keep track of breeding better dogs to better dogs for hunting purposes and we would have better hounds.

i know this will spark a debate over what is better, registered hounds or grade....even though you hold the papers in your hands....how do you know for sure your "pr' ukc mutt isnt grade?
i would conform if.... 1. ukc would start from square one with 100% dna'd dogs....2. ukc would mandate a dog at least be able to tree a lousy raccoon....one dog alone in the woods, unassisted...i hope my situation is not temporary with ukc, i hope it becomes permanent.jmho.

everything you just said is very true plus there is also the factor of females getting bred by other than the stud. dogs seem to find a way this has happened more than once without dna everytime some slip through especially if its of the same breed,or dominating color.its just nature finding a way around what we have planned. my buddy thought he had some kickass plotts on the way when i mentioned at about six months how they started to resemble the black dog next door they were culled ,but it stinks cause he had all that time into raising them.his neighbors got an ear full lol.

not to be a smart ass but if the dogs sell for more with papers id rather register em n get more money lol

41 years of hound hunting....here is how i derive at a conclusion....EXPERIENCE... HERE IS ANOTHER CLASS EXAMPLE KORDOG. BREEDER BREEDS HIS BITCH TO A UKC REGISTERED MALE....THEN OPTS TO TAKE THE SAME BITCH TO ANOTHER KENNEL AND BREED TO A DIFFERENT MALE...... TRUE STORY. THE DAM WAS DNA'D, BOTH SIRES WERE NOT. SUPPOSE THIS BREEDER NEVER DNA'D THE SIRES AND JUST ASSUMED THE FIRST MALE BRED THE BITCH. the breeder is under no obligation and can do as he wishes....just as long as he sends his money to ukc, all that matters...here is what happened.....seven pups were whelped form the litter. six were sired by male stud dog .a and one was dna'd by stud dog .b....hmmm

one is a higly claimed stud dog right here on this forum....without the dna profile on all dogs bred (not mandatory with ukc) how would this breeder know who sired what?

i call bullsh%$ on ukc and breeders....happens every day....just for fun get me riled up and i will list a pile of ukc junk, complete examples with the names attached....

10-4 donbhuntn....you drive home my point....you spend all this money on dogs and fail....wife is ready to kill you....REGISTER THEM-BREED EM'- SELL EM' FO MO MONEY!!!

NOT TO PICK ON YOU....YOU REPRESENT A FAIR SHARE OF THIS BOARD AND ATTITUDE. ALL UKC WANTS IS YOUR MONEY....

ADIOS.....MIKE

I run grade dogs and i have papered dogs. I never used the papers from the papered dogs other then to write down the names on the pedigree.

This might suprise some people but a lot of grade dog owners that are serious about what they are doing probably keep better track of the type of hounds they are producing then the UKC AKC whoever is keeping track with titles and labels in hand.

How does a paper or titles tell you what kind of dog they really are? and if that is what you are looking for?

I agree that you need to keep a record of your hounds and what they are out of and alot of other infomation that i dont believe ukc or akc keep track of. That being said i have no clue what the ukc and akc really do....so i am ignorant with any information about them. I am just saying i would have a hard time paying someone to give me a paper telling me what my dogs are.

There are good dogs in both registered and grade....find good people that hunt hard and you will find good hounds either way.

Take care, jason

I was going to write a long explanation explaining my ideas but Mike wrote them down better then I could. He is exactly right. There are NO papers out there that are 100% correct so they are worthless. Pup and paper swapping has been going on for ever so the papers you are paying for are NOT correct.
When I go looking for a new pup and see an ad posting the pedigree, that is the first clue that tells me to look somewhere else.

Not saying the ukc is perfect and all breeders are honest far from it.
But if say your looking for a ceratain trait in a dog you can research blood lines and have a better chance of finding it

mike are you implying that I am dishonest in what I did and that you can tell just by looking at a dog that he is not out of what the dna said it is all was done above board and yes it was expensive to have all 7 pups dna'd and both sires dna'a out of my pocket and ukc allows the use of 2 sires in breeding one female as long as all are dna'a if anyone doubts this call them and ask for a dual sired litter application they will send it to you. This allows a breeder to compare the quality of the pups out of two sires and put the pups in the same enviroment to evaluate.which sire he wants to use the next time so not losing valuable time. I value my female and if I can cut corners and find out which male I am going to get the best pups from by spending a few bucks that's a small price for the pleasure of owning her. You can no way say a dog is out of a certain sire unless dna is involved I am not saying that 2 sires bred a female and other have reg. them I am sure it has happened. and what it will come to one day is it will be a requirement to dna all dogs and then there will be alot of grade dogs to choose from. I am not sure about your story the only dog that I was aware you owned was seven John never dna'a any of his and that is the pup the fight is over even if you dna'a the pup in question they wouldn't be able to prove anything unless the parents were done and neither one of them is. correct me if I am wrong but seven is the only one you have that is tested.....you can have a profile done on a pup and from that pup on providing this pup is ever used for breeding and the dog its mated to and the pups can be tested and approved only if all are tested so I am not sure why you are bashing ukc and if you can dna a dog by looking at them by all means you better start making money with it all my dogs are dna'a for people like you this leaves no room for doubt to anyone I can't say what was done before my time but at least I can look at anyone and say they are what they are.... don't drag me into your mud