BigGameHoundsmen.com

Houndem made a great point in the post about the slowstarting Camerons. I mean these comments about any slow starting hounds not just those Camerons. Like Houndem said, you could have trained generations of faster starting hounds in the time it took the slowstarters to get going. I am in total agreement with that . Its great that some slow starters turn out to be really good dogs. Those are the ones you always hear about. A guy will say " dog never really got going till he was 3 yrs old but he finished into a nice dog" That may well be true BUT. I have seen alot more dogs that were cranking at a year old that turned into really nice finished dogs.The owners didnt have to lose another 2 years waiting either ! Also, I have seen many many guys hold onto slow starting dogs until they were 3 or 4 and those dogs never turned on. Thats a lot of wasted years. If youve held onto a dog from pup till he is 3 or 4, it can sometimes be very hard to get rid of them because of the attachment . Guys dont seem to brag much about a dog they kept for several years that never turned out good. We usually only hear about the ones that do.

I have a hard time Feeding / Maintaining a hound that does NOT show a glimmer of hope after 2 years .Not worth breeding in my mind

i have to agree i like dogs that start early and naturally not manmade so to speak ,because alot of dogs can be taught to tree among other things that a hound should have naturally . this isnt what i want in my breeding program .i want naturals in my breeding program that do it because its bred in them. im not saying this is the case with every dog ,but there is a fair amount that only learn a behavior because of the time put into them.that being said i kept a male that didnt start until he was 16 months that turned out great ,but i still wouldnt breed to him because of the late start.just the way i like to do it right or wrong it seems to be working for me.

kordog : excellent point . While we don't breed we do follow those plans when considering whom to buy from . I certainly WISH the Dog Jockeys had the same plan

There has been a lot of input on the age that dogs start. It really varies with the breeding and type of dog. Some dogs start really young[ running and the Leopards] some latter. If you have been around a strain for several litters one can usually pick which work for you. One thing that I think that people do if they do not know the dogs is to pick a hipper active pup thinking it has a lot of hunt in it. It my be just a over active pup that is hard to handle and train. I have owned dogs that I was just there ride to the woods. They could catch game but not a lot of fun to deal with and took up a lot of time. For me a pup that makes a lot of noise young and sounds good is a follower not a leader. I would expect to see something out of them by 1 year, doing well by 2. If a dogs has been hunted you should know by 2 if he is going to make it. It may need a little more time in some areas but it had better be good in others. It varies with the game they are hunted on and the person that is hunting them. Some people can get the best out of a dog easily. By 2 a dog should be able to catch his own game by three he should be able to do it consistently, even bobcats. Some of the top bobcat dogs that I have seen started catching cats by 12 to 18 months old and leading the pack. The best ones are born with the ability they just need to get in the hands of someone to bring it out. Dewey

Dewy, well said.

I raise and start all my pups the same. The most important part to me is getting them socialized and getting a handle on them. That starts from the time they are born. By 4-6 months old I start taking them hunting. I don't have to "wait for them to mature" because they are used to being hauled around, used to the other dogs, and if they have any natural ability, they catch on immediately. After about 10-15 trips to the woods I see what I wanna see in a dog, usually I can tell by the first time I take them. By about 15 months old I make my decision (depends on when the dog was born in relevance to seasons) If a dog makes it past 2 years old in my yard, you better believe it can catch its own game, and is a driving dependable force in my pack. I've always had good luck picking pups. The biggest reason I get rid of young dogs is because they annoy me.

Dewey,
Very well said, I agree with you 100%.

Cassandra,
I think alot of people just don't understand how important early socialization, as well as learning good manners, is to a young pup.

Josh

I get a lot of sh*t flung my way for even taking my pups at the age I do. I don't teach them to handle, I don't teach them a thing. I simply let them out of the truck when I have game running. the ones that show up and catch on are called keepers! the ones that don't are called culls! plain and simple! great topic!

I get the same thing from a lot of people. "You can't train that many pups together, they don't get enough time spent on them" ect... I'll see the one's I wanna keep at the tree. They all get the same opportunity. Slow starters, failure to hunt, shy, tree milling, babbling behind are CULLING offences. Not "wait and see."

Houndnem,
Interesting that you don't get your dogs to handle. Why don't you want them to handle before you hunt them?

it's not that I don't want my dogs to handle, it's just not a priority. I'll take a bunch of disobediant mutts that tree game every time they knock me on my ass getting out of the box than some dogs that come out single file by name and then don't get er done. I cull for handle the same way that I cull for tree, trail, trash, etc. the ones that just figure it out quick get to stay, the ones that don't are gone. I have bred these dogs for all of the qualities I like, and have been lucky to have a low cull rate. I think it helps that I have my pups in my "free for all" kennel from the day they are born. they have to be smart and tuff or they die. by the time they're a couple months old they just think they are "one of the dogs". it's perty easy to get them to follow their mom and all their kennel buddies to the tree and figure out what's going on if they are comfortable. p.s. I don't trash break either.lol I have a couple good deer or elk runs a year and then the dogs just kinda lock on to the game I want them to chase. I think people get so caught up in the black and white area of houndn' that they forget about the grey area.

I agree with Houndem , socializing with the big dogs is a must for early starts, especially if the pup has been introduced to the pack and not born there. That being said I alway leash train the pups at an early age as it is one less thing to worry about when you start pulling them off trees. Most of the time a leash won't be needed as they will follow the pack, but I have one cement head that likes to return to the tree if I am not watching. That can sometimes take the youngs ones with him.

Why would you want to leash and drag your dogs from a tree when you could just call them and trun and walk away and they follow? Dewey

Borderpond sorry if this is off topic........... Dewey I also like to think I have a good handle on my hounds but I don't think that I could have talked any good tree dogs that I have had off the tree (and not sure I'd want to). How do you get to having them mind that well? shock collar I guess. Terry