BigGameHoundsmen.com

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meeting ... packet.pdf

Well fellas here we go harvest objective for bears and no hounds, spot and stalk hunts only during those dates. DEER HUNTERS WITH A BEAR TAG!!!

And summer training reductions to study if we run bears into conflicts???? REALLY!!

Check out the few fall harvest dates. Guess we need not be on the mountain when an elk hunt is going on. We are to blame that a road hunter cant get his elk.

Lets here your thoughts!

Ohh did I fail to mention the Udwr link is wrong on season dates.

The fall harvest dates proposed for SaJuan and LaSall are August 20-sept 7th. Dont feel like fall to me!!

You know the whopping 5 permits per unit are causing havoc with the elk hunters.
Ya know the guys that hunt the road are getting ran off the road by these 5 houndsmen!!!!!

We can't run bears in Idaho during any rifle season for deer or elk (with one exception that I can think of). Get used to it man, The game departments always have and always will side with the deer and elk hunters because they buy more tags. The only reason they tolerate us is because public pressure hasn't risen to an intolerable level about hound hunting yet, and that most western states want us to kill lions in the name of mule deer management. Utah is so damn overrun with houndsmen I'm really suprised you guys have anything to chase anyway. I hunted the Uintah's years ago, and even then there was a hound hunter around every bend. I can't imagine the chaos now. Get a good, sturdy horse or mule and use it to get as far from the other guys as you can. You'll catch tons more game and enjoy yourself much more than you ever will trying to beat everyone to a track on your sled, or to the first bear rig in your favorite canyon. It'll even give you a chance to quit thinking about the politics of your state government for a few minutes while you get out your camera to take a picture of a bear or lion in a tree and enjoy watching your old hounds teaching the youngsters how to unravel a tough track or bay a mean bear.

If it only mattered what we thought. I think it was a clear indication at the RAC meetings with the lions. Shut the hell up because they do not care what you think they will do what ever they want. It is all a joke, come to the Rac and voice your opinion, ya right.

Well, Neff, I can see where you are coming from, and yeah I get disgusted too about it all. I was at the Board meeting when they made the changes to the lion, and you are absolutely right they already had their minds made up. There was not a person going to change it either. On the other hand, there were a few people there and ALL of them opposed the changes, and every member of the board knows it. It may not mean anything, but those that were there had opinions and were heard. We all have different ideas of what we would like to see happen, and they may differ alot, but if you never make an appearance or make a recommendation to someone like Chad, or any other representative whom you may choose to affiliate with, you don't have a right to complain. I think as hunters and houndsmen alike, we now have a pretty good asset on the Wildlife Board, John Bair is new on the board, but he is a lion and bear hunter and I don't know him well, but he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. At the Board meeting I went to, he listened to every one of the speakers, and furthermore tried to explain to the other Board members what they need to understand, as we all know most of them have no clue about what is going on. Yeah and they all had their minds made up. Chad did a very good job representing the houndsmen association, and trust me he made known what he wanted to make known. I know we can't all make the meetings, and we may think very differently about things, but at least make an effort to let someone who is going to be there know what your feelings are and that way you at least have a "small" voice, and more importantly at least you can complain about it, cause in the end its looking like that may be all we have anyway.

Bayem
Your right this state is plum full of dog men, makes you wonder how long before the crash! As far as riding that is the purest way of hunting dogs IMO. I got a few hay burners out back myself. Kind of an intresting combo of animals dogs you can force your will on and horses and mules you gotta make em think its there idea.Man do I strugle!!!

lsorenso,
Thanks dude, here's a quick stroll down memory lane. Once prop 5 passed & the "antis" were tossed out of the wildlife show it was just ran by sportsmen. The deer hunters out numbered us so bad the houndsmen got tired of tell em that lions were'nt the problem. So nobody showed at all for about 7 years. Guess when the aggressive lion harvest started?????

Now back to current day. If you show up you will be frustrated and pissed @ times, BUT maybe we wont go staight down hill. My hope is we can curve the decline of our sport. And yes we do need any and all opinions to discuss our concerns.

Even though my wife thinks I can read minds I cant. So she now uses hand signs with one finger. GUESS WHAT FINGER IT IS????

I am not trying to disrespect Chad or anyone else that tried to help. I do believe the hound assosciation done everything they could, and that alot of people stood up for what is right. Thanks

I do know John Bair and we will see how he does for us. But remember he is only one.

You are right we still need to stand up and be heard. It will not do any good for everyone just to sit back an let it go.

And my opinion is do not let them start HO with the Bear it will end up just as the Lions have. A couple of HO units this year then the whole state within a couple of years. Soon we will have none.

Theres an interesting problem beginning to take shape in Utah, and I'm keeping a close eye on it because Idaho will have the same problem in a few more years. When Utah started to agressively manage a large number of units for trophy deer and elk, they made it very difficult for the average hunter to hunt any big game species every year. A lot of those hunters that had the means took up hound hunting as a way to get in some big game hunting on a regular basis. In areas where there were just a few houndsmen twenty years ago, there are now hundreds. Some of these houndsmen are very good at what they do, and are also very ethical. They only take trophy specimens of the species they are pursuing and enjoy the pursuit immensly more than the anti-climatic kill. Most of the houndsmen in these areas are fairly new to the sport and much less ethical. If it's legal, it's dead. This creates a huge rift in the hound hunting community. Old-timers are frustrated by the lack of lions and bears, and their own "political peers" are to blame. This is not a problem that a game department is equipped to handle when you have two different factions fighting amongst themselves, because to the game dept. they are the same group of people. The only answer is to limit harvest through a draw system, but we all know that limiting bear harvest and especially lion harvest is not at the top of the agenda. If the hound hunters ask for a draw system or shorter seasons, then they might as well join PETA or the Sierra Club. The answer must be very complicated, but hopefully you Utah houndsmen can figure it out, because we'll be dealing with it in Idaho before too long as well.

Neff,
Your exactly right we heard it right from the horses mouth (the dwr director)
"we are not here to make houndsmen happy, we must do what the deer hunters want"

As far as john bair I dont have much faith in him as he is DEEP in bed with don and byron the "sportsmen" group who want all predators dead. He will do what he is told.

We are in deep water here and have been greatly out numbered and out $$$$$$$ by the sportsmens groups.

Hope some houndsmen show and tell em ehat you all think. Scrap the rac meetings show up @ the wildlife board meetings with us an tell them what you think!
January 12th

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meeting ... hedule.pdf

How does almost 40% increase on lasal and jan juan sound!!! Plus nearly 1/2 season dates cut on same units....WTF!!! 30 tags for spot and stock in oct!!!!! STEP OR BURY UR DOGS!!!! YA 77 tags on san juan and lasal......ok WTF it guna take y'all wana be coon hunters or WHAT!!!! Like they say grow some ball!!! NEVER MIND GROW A PUSSY IT CAN TAKE A POUNDING!!!!! STEP UP LET'S SEE WHAT YOU GOT!!!!!!!!

black eye wrote:Hope some houndsmen show and tell em ehat you all think. Scrap the rac meetings show up @ the wildlife board meetings with us an tell them what you think!
January 12th

I agree the RAC is a waste of time. The Wildlife Board Meeting is where it happens as we have clearly learned in the past.

It's not looking good for dog guys in this state, that's for sure. The SFW has hijacked the DWR and the SFW views lions and bears the same way they view wolves. They are interested in dead predators and no dogs on the mountain.

And the DWR is just way over matched. The deer herd is gone and they have no idea why or what to do. The lions are now wiped out so now they are going put their collective single digit IQ's together and figure out the bear situation. No way this can end well.

And sounds like a few are hanging their hopes on John Bair. I guess it's good to have a voice in there. And he is a nice guy and will do what he feels strongly about. But let's not forget he was at the forefront of the biggest lion slaughter in Utah history, along with another hound guy who I don't need to name. No need for an SFW history lesson here, what's done is done.

But a lot of what they are saying sounds very very similar to what we heard with the lions, and I saw how that worked out. I hope they prove me wrong...

But let's be honest, when has the Utah DWR ever proven anyone wrong?

I guess just enjoy it while it lasts, and hope we catch a break or two. Not even going to comment on the RAC process, it's so comical.

Good to see you out here giving it hell Blackeye. Glad you are finally done pushing old ladies over at Walmart to get $3 dollar waffle irons.

They should let the utah dwr manage wolves in other states and make coyotes game animals every thing they have controll over is close to extinction

Neff wrote:

black eye wrote:Hope some houndsmen show and tell em ehat you all think. Scrap the rac meetings show up @ the wildlife board meetings with us an tell them what you think!
January 12th

I agree the RAC is a waste of time. The Wildlife Board Meeting is where it happens as we have clearly learned in the past.

We were planning on going to the RAC meeting...is it really totally useless or would the presence help at all?? Would be about 5 of us going to it...

Zach,
Yes by all means show up and voice your opinion. This will be a very interesting deal.

Been taking lots of emails and had tons of phone calls. If everybody shows that says they will I may sit back and watch it all unfold.

Needless to say many houndsmen involved in these events should help.

Meetings start tonight.