BigGameHoundsmen.com

I know this subject have been talked about several times and I'm not necessarily asking why you prefer papered or grade dogs because I know papers don't catch game, and anyone that knows me knows that I could care less about papers and if I do get papers I only keep their puppy papers and the UKC never sees them. That being said I can see why/how papers can be useful and helpful to keep track of a dogs breeding and when starting your own breeding program. My question is after all the dogs some of you "old timers" have tried did you end up with some paper dogs that follow a certain line of dogs or did you stay with some "home grown" stuff that maybe you started out with? Only reason I ask is that it seems that I have found some stuff out there that I like but for the most part I have found the original stuff I started with seems to be with what I want to stick with, anyone else been the same way? Thanks for any responses, Jarred

Jarred, have had many dogs of all breeds over the years but have always kept the Nance strain and am glad I have as they always seem to give it thier all. Andy

I have been lucky to have started with a dog out of my parents and family's line of Reg Walkers, then I did my homework and found another similar line, and time and time again I keep going back to those two lines. I find myself thinking I can get better elsewhere, and have been sorely dissapointed. Not saying there isn't better out there. I just haven't found any that suit me as well. I suppose though if your like me and were raised around a certain type of dog and hunting a certain way, that you kind of grow up "trained" that way.

Most of the hounds I keep are not something many folks bother to register. I have one off an accidental litter that is the best dog I have ever owned. I have her brother that is also top notch, it just so happened that two good dogs tied up in the dog box. I have three papered dogs, although I don't have the papers. This line was bred to hard, and produced some great dogs consistently. These three do not hold a candle to my grade dogs.

My bear dogs were probably papered, they are plotts that came from the birth place of the plott, Western NC, Maggys Valley to be exact.

I would prefer to have all papered dogs, as it provides me a lineage to track disorders and traits. The biggest advantage I have seen is that it helps to reduce hybrid vigor, and a greater percentage of the pups seem to turn out (provided it was a sound blood line and breeding).

However, I will probably never have many papered dogs, as I am not going to go out of my way to get papered dogs. At this stage of my life I am lucky to own hounds (college) and do not have finances to get papered dogs. The papers drastically add to the value of a puppy and even a hound. I do not let papers concern me, but I can see the benefits of papers in regards to breeding.

Great input everyone, appreciate all the responses. I agree papers are great for breeding purposes and keeping track of linage but Im not exactly sure why people pay more for a registered dog? Seems since a dog has papers as a puppy its magically worth 200-300 more dollars? Any more input on this?

The way I see it people charge what they want for pups. Never seen any worth more cause they had papers. I see plenty of grade dogs go for $300-$500 as weanlings. Where I see registered pups going for as little as $150-$200. Just depends on what someone is willing to spend, and what a person feels there pups/time is worth.

I figure some people might pay a little more for pups with papers because it's proof of what a dogs is out of (or should be) A person with grade dogs can tell ya all about what there dogs are out of, but without some sort of official pedigree or papers (and now DNA), then ya just never know for sure.

Papers are a tool for us to use. Don't mean a thing about the dog or even the people behind it - Doesn't make them any better, or take anything away either. People get too hung up on them, either for or against.

I think the topic of the post should have just been "Homegrown or Not" not "Papered vs. Grade"

Often folks with grade dogs do not track their lineage as many of them are in and out of hounds on a regular basis. The ones breeding the specific lines I commonly see tend to have papered dogs, so they can track a line. That is a big part of the price of these pups.

In this particular area labs are probably the most prevalent dogs, black to be specific. The papers on these dogs have become almost fan fare. I think this is part of what drives the idea around here.

A good dog anywhere is going to fetch good money. As I stated there is a basic fan fare surrounding papers I see around here.

Edit- In thinking about it, I have a chance to buy a blue English pup. This pup comes off two top notch big game hounds. Without papers I am looking at around 150 for the pup. That same pup with papers would probably fetch 250-300 at least.

Running walker pups that I have bought are the same way. A grade pup may cost $100, but with papers that pup will run over $200.

I think that keeping records is a personal thing. If someone buys a dog that is registered with one of the kennel clubs, and that person doesn't care about liniage, those papers have no value. On the other side of that coin, if someone cares about the direction they are heading with their dogs, keeping records is just a natural part of having those dogs.

Registered or grade, papers matter.

I agree its great to keep track of your line of dogs and papers make that easy but I for one if I plan on breeding much in the future will keep track of my own dogs. Its good to know what your dogs parents or grandparents did but beyond that unless someone is around that still knows about those dogs or have keep detailed records on them you arent going to know much about them anyways. There's a few papers of dogs Ive seen that I bet almost no one but the original owners knew anything about the dog, then there's others who almost everyone knows what that dog did and how bad/good they were. I think most people with grade dogs would also keep track of their dogs and their breeding for their own sake, only to keep from breeding to close or if they want to breed back to something they know where the dogs all go back to in their original stock and how close they can breed. Lots of good information here, I think we can all agree keeping some sort of record of your dogs and your breeding program is essential and maybe one of the only advantages to papers is that they are kept track for you? On the negative side of that you have to pay out th A$$ sometimes it seems just to get those papers.

It doesn't matter. The best question to ask is what will this dog do, what will the parents do and what will the grandparents do? Buying strictly off papers will be the quickest way to fill your yard with papered culls that won't get the job done. With that being said my best dog is a papered walker 12 yrs old with three world champion coon dogs in the pedigree, he is a bear/hog dog and as good as I've ever seen, hillbilly mac, nelsons radar, and other grch dogs. I saw him find and bay up three hogs three days in a row after running them for hours, the papers were just a bonus but I would have bought him with no papers and I've only crossed him over jam up non-papered cur dogs, a lot of the pups off the crosses are amazing. I do not plan on crossing him over any papered gyps unless I happen to find one that just happens to be papered. Most puppy breeders will breed strictly off papers to sell pups and never hunt their dogs, they don't even really know what they've got.