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i hope this makes sence. do u think a slower more open type dog kinda puts the cat at a more la la state . i have seen some old dogs like 12 year old dogs tree cats. the race is more of a babblely take a while type race , next thing u know your going to a tree. its like the cat lets its gaurd down and the never runs like if a hard pushing track dog was on it. on the flipside i have seen dogs push a cat super fast but make some long loses and run the cat for hours and never finish the job because they give the cat to much time in between jumps . over running the track and so on. i know steady preasure catches cats but the 12 yr old isnt really keeping the preasure on , its more like they are just trailing the cat around and the cat just decides to tree after awile. dont know if this makes sence or not im just bored and thought i would right something .

jc

Jc: One of the best cat dogs that I have had was a slow dog but did not make loses. She caught a lot of cats easy. I had a real fast bear dog that I ran with her and could not catch a cat with the two of them. When I realized the fast dog push the cat ahead but could not pickup the turns I caught the fast dog and usually the slow dog treed the cat in 20 or 30 minutes that I had been running with loses for hours. It does not take a fast dog just one that does not make looses and keeps the pressure on. I have had areas that have been hunted hard that when a cat hears the dogs they get up and start moving. It can be hard to get a jump on a cat that stays 15 or 20 minutes ahead of the dogs. Cats like that I think don't move out if there is a quite dog saying very little until they get right on the cat. In real tough areas in the desert with a lot of bluffs and rock piles I have a cur and a young dog that does not open until they are right on a cat to catch those but that is a different thing than you are talking about here. I would say yes if a cat is not scared it will not get up and take off, one dog might make the difference. Dewey

jc, in this area an older slower dog will maybe catch 1 in 20 bobcats as they just dont have the speed needed at jump time to put the cat up. True you dont need a super fast dog to catch cats but if you do have that type of fast track dog with great jump speed you will not miss many cats here. jmo Andy

i will always believe that a more careful hound (not one that stands on it's head) will put more meat on the wood. these type hounds when they are moving fairly good tend to shut their mouth when they come to checks (corners, losses) imeadiatly when they no longer smell sent. now probably a good percentage will have a good laugh at what i say next and that is ok. but after spending alot of time in front of the hounds, and sometimes purposly making the critter they were chasing change direction. get ready for your after countless times of doing this not only do they shut their mouths when they no longer smell sent. but certain dogs automaticly either turn right or turn left. dad and i called them left handed and right handed. thus being right on the check fifty percent of the time and looking like they were reading the critters mind. now the good ones did not make a forty yard hook when the made their turn and were wrong. they make it real tight and have the brains to keep their circle going and pick it up on the other side. thus not having a long loss. i guess some will have a good laugh at this but i have seen it to many time for me to not believe it. and i can't take any credit for figuring this it out. but had someone that consistantly thought outside the box and never thought he had the best, because one from the next litter or another that someone else had would always have that title. there for always looking for better. and am glad that thinking was past along to me. have a good laugh but try not to miss even the smallest thing when you are out there. take care! p.s. you can not gain these type of observations staring at the garmin

Jc,
You ask, "Do you think a slower more open type dog puts the cat in a la la state?"

I don't think so. In this area here, I think it is just the difference between cats. Some or easy and some or hard. I would suspect this wholes true pretty much every where.

You might catch a cat out of your hunting territory and another fresh cat moves in that has never been run with dogs before. This new cat doesn't know what a barking dog means so he doesn't have any fear. So the old slow moving dog that gives a lot of mouth just keeps pecking away on the trail and the cat isn't putting any distance between himself and the dog. After a while this cat might decide to climb a tree to get a better look at this loud thing that seems to be following him. As he's sitting in the tree the old dog comes along and sits down treeing and has the cat. And you think "Wow old so and so treed a cat" and he did, but it was a easy cat.

Now you put this same old slow dog on a cat that has been dogged before and gotten away and see how many you catch. I think it will be a different story.

To me it's hard to figure the difference between one cat and another on how they run. I have went into fresh country before, where as for as my knowledge, has never been hunted. And you expect to catch easy cats, and some are, but you still might get after one that really puts up a race too.

So....to sum it up, I think your old slow moving, open mouth dog just happened to find him an easy (dumb) cat. Just my thoughts. Robbie

Slowandeasy,
You posted as I was typing my above post.

After reading what you wrote I just want you to know, I'm not laughing. I have also seen what you just described. And I would have to call it an experienced cat dog. Robbie

JC I believe South Texan nailed this one for you! Thanks Al Baldwin

Jc that sounds like JUGGS slow as hell but does catch cats not alot but does catch some. but hes not an old dog like ur talking about just a slow dog period

robbie, its funny when i write things. i try and evauleate humans same as i always do hounds. so i tend to have a mental list in my head as to who i think also notices things that i believe to be true. for what it is worth you were on the list!!

Slowandeasy, seems as though our observations are pretty similar. Take care. Robbie

Thanks guys and keep it coming. I'm learning lots about cats. And how people can see the same thing and think about it differently.

lets see if i can give an example of a race . lets say there is a canyon that is pretty steep ,1500 ft from top to bottom . across to the oposite hill side is also 1500 ft . lets say a cat has fed from where u are down across the canyon and up the other side. if a slow babbly trail type dog took the track down the hill and up the other side in say 45 min . pretty much a steady cold trail. do u think the cat would act the same if a running type pack of dogs that could carry the track like it was jumped came flying off that hill giveing good mouth . and covering the same distance in say 10 min. i think the cat that heard the slower dog will sit there and not be threatened , maybe start walking and listening , sneaking around but not lining out. that same cat hears the running type pack flying over the hill gets in a panic and heads out of dodge . making for a lot farther chase. they might both tree the cat but 2 totolly different races . jmo
there are tougher cats than others but for the most part i think the chasing the cat makes a big difference in the race. not saying i prefer the slower dog because i dont , but i do respect there persistance .



jc

jc, i think all wild animals being trailed by just a steady hound, i almost think are enjoying themselves. getting up on rocks, stumps, logs putting an ear on the hounds, then when they get a certain distance from the cat hustle out a ways and do the same thing again. how ever when they tree i think it is of the cats choice. and if they choose not to and continue to control the distance it allowes the dog to get i think it could be along day. take care!

Once in a while the old dog has a good day, shows everyone why he's still got that spot up on the dog box. John.

[quote="coastrangecathunting"]lets see if i can give an example of a race . lets say there is a canyon that is pretty steep ,1500 ft from top to bottom . across to the oposite hill side is also 1500 ft . lets say a cat has fed from where u are down across the canyon and up the other side. if a slow babbly trail type dog took the track down the hill and up the other side in say 45 min . pretty much a steady cold trail. do u think the cat would act the same if a running type pack of dogs that could carry the track like it was jumped came flying off that hill giveing good mouth . and covering the same distance in say 10 min. i think the cat that heard the slower dog will sit there and not be threatened , maybe start walking and listening , sneaking around but not lining out. that same cat hears the running type pack flying over the hill gets in a panic and heads out of dodge . making for a lot farther chase. they might both tree the cat but 2 totolly different races . jmo
there are tougher cats than others but for the most part i think the chasing the cat makes a big difference in the race. not saying i prefer the slower dog because i dont , but i do respect there persistance .

JC, when you say "They might both tree the cat but 2 totally different races." I agree, two totally different races.

After reading your example two or three times and a little pondering here's my conclusion. The old slow, open mouth dog treed his just because the cat decided to go up a tree all on his on, no pressure.

On the other hand, the running type pack that is taking a feeding track on the run (must be good conditions), when they get to where the cat decided to get out of Dodge and took off, from this point on the running pack should be running heads up and all out, closing the gap fast. Now if this is a good running pack, not over running the track or making any loses, they should break this cat down in a hurry. He want be able to handle the pressure. He's either got to take a tree or fight it out on the ground, which ever he decides.

So....the slow dog got his because the cat decided to tree on his own and the fast pack got their cat because of fast and steady pressure.

You also ask, do you think the cat will act the same between the two different styles of dogs. I think he will act pretty close to how you described it. Cat not threatened by the slow dog (which sure makes it harder for the dog, sneaking cat) and then cat losing his sense of composure with the fast pack (getting out of Dodge, fatal mistake).

Just my take on your scenario. Good hunting to all. Robbie