BigGameHoundsmen.com

My young dogs have been doing great, at 19 months they have a half dozen cats under their belt without an old dogs help. It has been smooth sailing so far, But.

One of my male's have started to rush his treeing, On what I can only think is a tough lose he will pull up and tree. No circling, no locate barks to speak of, just a rush tree job. This slow's the whole race and make's catching a tough cat damn near impossible.

I have delbt with this problem before but with dogs that were not as timid as this one. Dont get me wrong this dog is definitily a keeper. I'm having a hard time deciding wether I should knock the shit out of him quick and force him to think about it the next time it happens or move slower with smaller corrections giving him more time to come around. What approach would you guy's take? Keep in mind this dog is timid to handling, a little goes a long way. Over correcting him might just ruin him for a month or ? . Help me think this out. Thank you. John.

I would gradually use as much punishment as it takes to get the message across. Can be a big challenge in our terrain, so much cover for the cats to hide. Might want to stop hunting him on coon. In this country seems the first lose on a hot coon race means a treed critter. Easier to knock some treeing out than getting a dog to tree that doesn/t have tree genes in them. Having said that must say some of most accurate tree dogs on bobcats have been the late tree dogs in my experience. Good Luck Al

Let me try to add some more info. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only 1 dealing with this training issue. This issue also deals with keeping a track moving, which is the key to catching many cats.

Working with young dogs is rewarding but has its limitations, The cats these dogs have caught have been from hot tracks, I would guess a half hour old or so. This sticky problem hasent shown itself on hot quickly jumped tracks. Cats that can walk out ahead of the dogs seem to bring out this sticky trait, Dogs can move along heating the track up moving towards a jump but before that happens the cat finds some mess to slow the dogs. Slowing the dogs is ok, but stopping them because a dog wants to pull up isnt ok. I need to get this into my dogs head and stop what he's doing wrong w/o stopping or setting back what he's doing right. Anyway I look forward to the replies, this could be a good topic. John.

Mr. Al,

It's nice to see you back! I know I for one miss your input. Look forward to hearing more.

John,

I don't know if you are really telling us enough about the situation. Are you running the dog alone? Are you running it with others? And is the dog getting hooked while the others are moving on. No matter what the scenario, it will be twice as hard to deal with being that you say you have to tiptoe around her a little bit. I know I personally would be a whole lot tougher. If you are running other dogs that are continuing with the track, yet she still feels the need to get hooked to a tree. In this case, I don't think I would care how timid because it's just something I don't believe that I could tolerate. If the track is coming to a complete stall, and nobody else is moving on with it. I guess I would just get a switch and lightly let her know that she's making a mistake. Good luck, and get Al out there!

Take care, Willie

John,

You must've sent yours the same time I sent mine. So I guess what your saying is the other dogs are backing her at the tree and screwing up the whole race. If that's the case, I would run her alone and when she felt the need to tree slick. I would put the switch to her enough to make her understand that she needs to move on. But I darn sure would not run those other dogs, with her as I believe it could get contagious.

Take care, Willie

i know that u have been hard on them as of late . running all those deer and such . so u should just go down there and pet him up and tell him good dog. Or u could just drop him off at my house and be done with him. lol. just kidding. i would just tone him . he has been on enough cats to know what is good game and bad. the hard thing is knowing if he has it up a tree or not without walking into him. sometimes it can take an hour or 2 to get to a tree around here. i would hunt him with sonny and when u see sonny lining it out again i would give him a tap on 2. if the tone dosnt work.

jc

Have to agree with Willy on this one. If the dog is pulling up tree and nothing in it get after him to a degree he gets the point wether it be you or a e-colllar, all it may take is a lite boot in the butt or a lite shock, as you are worried about maybe ruining him because of his timidness if you cant correct him from false treeing he will be nothing but a problem. jmo Andy

Thanks for the advice guy's, good to hear from you Al.

I have been discouraging coon for awile now.

I will go out a few times and hope for the right race to work this dog. I will report back when I have seen something to report. Maybe get in a little deer breakin, I wonder how J.C.'s 1st day back to work is treating him? Thanks, John.

John

I bet every stick,viney,and limb jumps out and slaps that arm all day long. He will need clean under wear when he gets home. Lmao....... Seriously though i hope it goes good for him

shit nothing to it , im to tough for toilet paper.

jc

Maybe the dog is rushing for the reward of treeing. Just a thought

Tman308, you might really be on to something.

More back ground is needed for it to make sence, here goes. This dog never really needed much correction on deer, I discouraged deer very lightly starting from a pup. But about 6 weeks ago the rut started, this changed things. I have a gamey female that started a deer and this male hound honored her, lagging behind at 1st but soon joined in a full blown deer race. I got lucky and caught them red handed but I went very easy on them. Then about a week later another deer race starting much like the 1st one except it involved my entire pack.

This time I lost it and the old me came out, I definitly overcorrected all of them, I was pissed off and they all knew I was serious this time. Well after that my deer problems went away but some new problems came up, maybe way worse than the occasional deer race.

Before all this my young pack of dogs were doing as good as they could have done. Working together to start tracks, quickly turning tracks started the wrong way. Quickly and quietly honoring the dog with the track and circling and checking for a lose before locating and treeing. It was beautiful to see. They were starting to work really well together.

Now they just seem off. When on track they dont seem to pack up like they did before, like on a lose they would fan out, but once one of them opened with the track every dog flew to that dog. But now they seem to delay, like maybe their afraid to honor the other dog. Then this young male just started getting sticky, he's never been shocked under a tree. To him this might be his safe zone. My dogs definitly enjoy their tree time. Most of the time they are business as usual but at the tree they are happy to see me and look forward to their attention from me while treeing. Tman may be right, this dog could just be wanting to hear he's a good dog and pulling up to soon.

One would not think this would all be caused by 1 heavy handed on track correction. If thats the case I have hurt this young dogs confidence, maybe the whole packs. If so beeping and shocking at this point will make matters worse. After much thought, I think I will lay the dog up for a week or two. Give him time to forget about the correction, making him want to hunt and catch so bad thats all he thinks about. Right or wrong it will be a good experiment. Thank you. John.

that sounds like the right thing to do jon.

jc

It sounds to me like your over thinking this one. I can't imagine correcting a dog for a deer race having any effect on it wanting to false tree. It sounds to me like the dog is a natural tree dog and the more game it catches the more it wants to grab a tree, like so many good tree barkers will if their not corrected. It seems like laying it up would just be a waste of a potential opportunity to correct a problem that is starting. I've never seen a problem fix itself by leaving them home. Start slow, get rougher, try to make sure they're finding it away from the tree he pulls up on. When you get to the tree don't praise or pay any attention to them until your sure they have it. That is one of the worst things to have, I've been there with the long walks for nothing and screwed up races. Good luck.

have to agree with kickemall, if the hound is that hard of a tree dog you sure wont ruin him by correcting him either it will work or he will stay an unaccurate tree dog.