BigGameHoundsmen.com

Gentlemen,


I do not wish to start a war between any of you but I am wondering who has the best line of bluetick dry ground bobcat dogs today. I would be looking for a line of dogs that can run with their heads up and drift a track, locate and tree in big timber and has the speed to stay up with walker/trigg crossed hounds. Now not to pick on any specific line but everyone has heard of the Cameron line but there are so many people out there using the name for their line of dogs that it is quickly becoming just like House, Nance and other big name lines from the past that finding a good prospect is getting smaller and smaller with each generation. That's not to say that there are not a lot of excellent dogs carrying the Cameron name out there today but finding the one that is special among the many is getting harder each day.

I also see that a lot of the big game guides are running a cross between walker/bluetick and doing a bang up job and owning one of these dogs would be great as everyone likes a good dog and as we all know papers do not tree the game, but is there a line out there that is bluetick and can stay the course.


Thanks

I have about quit writing anything on here do to negative/bs posts that have come down!

BUT, here goes one more time!

Very interested in the responses that I hope your post will generate. I, like you, have attempted to find breed, type, cross, etc. that will strike, run, tree Mr. Bobcat and do so in many and various type of terrain and environment. What will work in the NW will only somewhat or not work in the SE. Those that will work in South Texas will only run and catch(no tree in most cases) in say here in Oklahoma. Cat dogs that will get the job done here in Oklahoma(and lets add Eastern Oklahoma) will work any where North or West for the most part, but take a tree hound or heavy tree hound cross to Eastern Oklahoma and they cannot hold up for more then 2-3 good cat races?

This is fact! I have been doing such for the last 7-8 years attempting to find the correct type, breed, cross, etc.. And some will say after hunting with me that I have a great pack of cat dogs? Me, sometimes they are good and sometimes I would not give a plug nickel for them!

Back to your post, and I hope plus expect, number of replies from good houndsmen from around the country to chime in on your question, you come up with some true insight of breed plus genetics within that breed that will be helpful to both you and number of us bobcat hunters.

I have a problem in that I love to hunt the thickets of Oklahoma-Arkansas-Missouri, and NE Texas, then I enjoy going to Western Oklahoma, West Texas, New Mexico, etc. and use the same dogs to run/tree lion & bobcat.

Here is where I say that we almost have to have two packs of cat dogs to do both, and I suspicion that if I was to want to go to your country or further North, I may have to have a third pack of dogs?

Giving you example: Leaving Sunday to travel to Mid-Central Missouri to hunt with well known Trigg Hound breeder and attempt to show him a bobcat with hounds? He told me that some good houndsmen from number of locations in US have attempted to do the same in the past--by the way---he is yet to see a bobcat! I laughed, and told him he may not see one with my hounds in his back yard, but travel back to SE Oklahooma and I would show him one! I didn't say I would tree one, but give me 2-3 races and I will catch one and show him that one!

Point being: I travel to number of locations and some times my pack looks good. Other times(like in NM-AZ border with Mr. Mike Pierce last year---they looked like YUCK!)

Not to drag this on, but just to stimulate the post, I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting, hunting, and becoming friends with a great amount of hounds people all over---all in the search for the ultimate pack of bobcat/cat hounds. Most of them that have been hunting for long time, have come up with various types/breeds that fit their area. And with them are catching game!

My suggestion------be sure and listen to those in your hunt area as to what they are hunting with and attempt to get a invite to hunt with them.

Good Luck and come hunt with me sometime,

Clyde

I haven't hunted with all strains of blueticks so i may not be qualified to answer your question but I'll give it a shot .The best that i have seen personally is the Smokey River Blueticks.No,they don't all make top bobcat dogs but some sure do.I've seen 4 in my country that did it all.They loved to run and they ran to catch .They were cold nosed,pressure tree dogs.My grade dogs carry a lot of their blood out of S.E. Oklahoma.I have a registered male with a lot of S.R.blood in him.The credit for his breeding goes to Kenny Driessen of Klamath Falls ,Or. and Dave Hill of Idaho.If anyone is interested he's standing at stud for $300.If you care to see what my dogs look like i can text or e-mail pictures.I have heard of other lines of blueticks that can get the job done on bobcat.

Thanks Guys for your comments and you know I have heard good things about both of your lines of dogs especially your male Robin....

You know I have read my question again and I realize that there is a million variables to consider before answering an open ended question like that. And almost any way you answered it you could get guys from this site shooting holes in your comments. So if I phrased the main question to say " Is there anyone out there with a line of blueticks that seem to be doing a good job on catching cats" Do you think we could get more people to reply? The question was not intended to find the worlds best it was really laid out there to get the guys who are running blueticks to tell us something about their dogs. What there like warts and all. And like it or not all dogs have problems (warts) no matter what color they come in. And gosh who knows someone might answer and say my dogs do this and then someone else might join in and say hey mine dose that and then maybe someone might jump in and say hey I remember old so and so's dogs and they did this... and the next thing you know we all had a good time reading about our dogs and might have learned something in the end to boot.

You know I thought this site BGH was intended to be a site where all who log on and enjoy the world of hound hunting or even new comers to the sport could come and join in and share wisdom and learn from others. You know a site where we can all share in ideas and methods and just tell others about the great hunt we had. But it seems that it is or has moved towards the few know it all's who come on give opinions from the mount and everyone else is expected to shake their heads yes or no and go with the flow. I am saying this as I had a few fellow head shakers to send me PMs rather than make a comment on my initial question on the open forum in fear of what some of the know it all's would say about their thoughts. Now this is a shame as they had some good thoughts and advice that helped me and I am grateful for that. Thanks guys...
I guess to finalize this outburst I would like to add that if the know it all's would take a minute or two and think before blasting someone's thoughts and rather than attack another persons comments they might rephrase the comment to say you know in the past I saw that and we did this to fix it.... you get the idea I hope.. and hey head shakers you need to step up and join in and stop being a wall flower...

Gosh What an Idea !

Oh yea and here's the soap box I have shot my mouth off way to much this evening... I promise I will never do it again... and I know "Thank God for That" right know it all's

I agree that the heavy Smokey River breeding is the way to go if you want blues to run bobcats. They are typically a little smaller type hound with good noses. As Clyde says, they might not be ideal in every country but still the best bet.
I have tried to breed heavy Smokey River with Upson breeding thrown in for increased athleticism. Of course most of Upson breeding goes back to the the Smokey River dogs as well.
Adios,
Gary

Some of the current (living) blueticks that I know of and their bloodline who have proven to be above average bobcat dogs;

Bon Bon- Hurricane/Cameron/old Uchtman/Hammer
Flash- Cameron/Uchtman/Blue River
Merlo's dog- Cameron/Uchtman
Angie- Les Mitchell/Buzz Anderson/Sm. River.
Rogue- Blue River/Uchtman/Cameron/Sm. River
Sky-Cameron (Jim Harrell breeding)
Blue- Old Uchtman/Hammer
River-Cameron/Uchtman

These are all dogs that perform well with or without company. The diversity of blood is wide. The guys who own these dogs know how to get the most out of them. Some are straight cat and some are multi-purpose.
I'm sure I've left out a few, but my point is that one needs to find dogs that cross well within the strain, or out, that show a certain propensity to do the job on cats that you need them to do according to your specific requirements and most importantly BE TRAINED WELL. Seeing is believing. Broad sweeping generalizations of the prominent, prolific strains (Sm. Rv., Hammer, etc.) don't work IMO because of the variety of traits and lack of traits you will encounter due to the widespread distribution of those lines. Because I may see some junk come out of some good lines shouldn't make me generalize that they are all junk. There is no majic. There is only trial and error or trial and success.

Justaguy,whatever you do don't stop contributing to this site.You just made some very insightful comments that needed to be said and I bet most people on here appreciated them.There will always be caustic,unhappy people that never have anything constructive to say.I ignore them unless they make it personal .I thought there would be more comments on your post.I'm glad to see they PM you at least.I wish they wouldn't let people with a sharp tongue keep them from commenting . Good to see Gary's post and Cobalt makes some very good points.I will PM you later. Robin

Think Cobalt hit it on the head. A good dog man can catch with just about any dog that has the ability. Put the dog in another mans hands and it'd be a cull. Just my thoughts. I like this thread and hearing about good dogs though.

Here my take, if there are outcrosses there is no such thing as this or that breed of dogs. They are what they are now and it’s not what they may have done in the past but what they can do today. I have also found that many of the blueticks have been bred to be coon dogs. To have a pack of hounds that consistently catches bobcats they must work as a team and not be independent. I am not saying that each and everyone does not have everything it takes to catch them by themselves, just saying that for bobcats it’s better with a pack that works together. I have bought many different types of blueticks from just about every breeder, but know of very few who just breed for cat hounds. In addition I have found coon dog type, booger bark when they catch them on the ground and for me that is something I will not have in my hounds. I want them to go in for the kill without any type of hesitation and I call that grit. I have also found when they have grit they also are able to hunt harder, longer and in tougher terrain and will not quit when they get hurt.
JTG

Mr Lawson on one of those places that you will probably hunt in M.O .there is a neighbor with goats you will need to stay close to your dogs if you can.My sambo dog had 11 great pyranees surrounding him when the cat we were running got on there property. Had I not been fairly close when I heard, what I thought was a caught cat, Sambo would have been dead. He was still sevearly injured but no throat dog in that crowd, only ass fighters circling looking for there shot. Have fun ( WATCH OUT FOR THOSE PYRANEES) tell them all I said hi.

You know JTG I have hunted for sometime but the thought of a coon hound being breed to be an individual rather than I team or pack member never ever occurred to me. I would think that , that kind of trait came from competition hunting rather than from the pleasure or hide hunters. You know depending on a persons view point that could be a positive in the case of the competition hunter and a negative from the other side. I do thank you for the thought as I would have never thought of it being a pleasure hunter myself. My dogs have always been a pack or team which I would assume about 80 % hound hunters would fall into

Again , thanks for expanding my mind and getting me to look at things just a little differently.

Justaguy

Justaguy,

You are welcome.

JTG

I feel that JTG is correct in that the competition coon hunters breed for and brag about "independence". What most to the competition hunters want a dog that completely ignores another hound and just does his/her own thing. In order to be successful catching cats across most of this county, the pack needs to work as a team.
Adios,
Gary

As for what strain does best on cat's I do not know but most talk has been about the Cameron, Utchman, and Smokey river blood. So that might be a good place to start. I think whats most important is knowing the grandparents of the dogs being bred. Look for the things you need to catch bobcat in your area threw the Grandparents like Locate, Cold nose, speed track style indurance and so on. So hope the dogs being bred are split evenly in there abilitys your looking for. It takes a combination of things to work to get a dog that can catch cat. Looking at Breed's and strain's is just a short cut. Jmo... My little Abby dog has some of the breeding listed above and she is dynamite in the area I hunt. Alot of it has to do with the handling and training she has recieved. But the dogs catch the cat not the human so trainer only goes so far.. Anyways to get back on topic try to look for the individual thats being bred rather then the strains, yes some strains produce what your looking for but them same strains are whats gonna produce genetics that are gonna hender your catch. Some things click some things dont

JTG,Do you hunt your own line of blues or a particular strain ?