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It never ceases to amaze me when looking at the cougar harvest information how this zone in New Mexico kills more female lions in proportion to sustainable mortality and sub limits quotas than any other zone in the state. With a year round season and a limit if well over 40 lions in this area cougar hunters have killed double the amount of females to toms and with as little as 6 more lions harvested this section could be shut down completly for 2014. This means the unit could be closed with 1/3 of actual given numbers just because hunters refuse to leave a female lion in the tree.

Certainly we know you are and not pointing fingers just asking for the sake of all hunters including other young folks getting into the sport excercise a little restraint, as there are still a lot of toms out there if you wait.

My opinion IS to start pointing fingers!! Call a spade for a spade!! Leave the damn females in the tree or you will loose your sport and mine. Help save our sport! True hounds men need to police their own and let people know who is killing the females and never let them have a good blooded pup or broke dog. JMHO

That's good advice,no matter what you hunt!

After you have killed one trophy lion - why kill any??

We all say we hunt for the love of the dogs - prove it.

I shake my head when i see this , you've treed it , get some photos , grab the dogs and wander off.
If i can fly half way around the world , to go hunting with hounds and a camera in the US.
Surely it's not hard to think a little about the sport and do the same when you live there

We have te same problem in Colorado. If we as houndsmen dont quit letting this happen this sport will be a thing of the past. Outfitters if you cant make a living harvesting males find another career and let those of us that love the sport continue to enjoy it. I would like to see some type of control that would limit outfitters on how many lions they are allowed to harvest in a unit.

Can you think of anything that the intro of money doesn't send down the tubes? Money and ego will probably end up ruining the things we love the most.

Here in Utah, we shot our females to the point we had to drive for days to find tracks. some great houndsmen formed an organization(vigilante group) that held meetings statewide threatening, begging ,pleading for people to stop killing females. as a whole everybody started giving each other peer pressure not to kill females. they also started educating newcomers to the sport about the damage of killing females. there are still the big name outfitters killing the shit out of females, but everyone else has really buckled down on it. in less than 2 years time we are seeing twice as many young cats and less miles per track! a few of you could get together and do the same thing.....

Wyoming is just as bad guys killing females, we don't have a female quota yet but they don't understand you kill the momma there won't be any cats in a few years. Good advice take a picture and chase her another day.

kiwi wrote:I shake my head when i see this , you've treed it , get some photos , grab the dogs and wander off.
If i can fly half way around the world , to go hunting with hounds and a camera in the US.
Surely it's not hard to think a little about the sport and do the same when you live there

Kiwi,


It's just plain and simple a combination of greed for money, and ignorance. People believe they have to kill everything their dogs tree to make good hounds . They don't understand that a well bred hound doesn't need to chew on fur. It does this stuff because it loves to. And the guides are just full of chit!! First off there is only a hand full that truly make it to the top. And actually make a living guiding. And they do it by taking advantage of the egotistical wanabes that aren't smart enough to recognize they are beating their trucks and equipment to death for someone else's gain. And also the smart ass guides try to remain lilly white about killing females. By blaming their clients. You know what they say. THE GUY IS PAYING AND HE DON'T CARE IF IT'S A TOM OR A FEMALE IT'S NOT MY FAULT. Well BS, if they made it so expensive that the client had to get a second line of credit at the bank to kill a female. They would see how fast their client WOULD care. Everyone cares when someone gets in their wallet!!! So in reality guides have the cure they just don't give a chit, as has been said many times!



Take care, Willie

Image is for goats but the math is the same as for lion.

Actually the math is worse for lions as they can have 2 or 3 kits out there. You never know how many kits a female has stashed somewhere.

Same thing here in mt where I hunt we go for weeks with no tracks and over the mountain the outfitter kills all the females they can it pays the same and they dont want them eating the precious deer. If they want to save deer kill some of these damn coyotes. So there is more lion food.lol

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slowandeasy wrote:

kiwi wrote:I shake my head when i see this , you've treed it , get some photos , grab the dogs and wander off.
If i can fly half way around the world , to go hunting with hounds and a camera in the US.
Surely it's not hard to think a little about the sport and do the same when you live there

Kiwi,


It's just plain and simple a combination of greed for money, and ignorance. People believe they have to kill everything their dogs tree to make good hounds . They don't understand that a well bred hound doesn't need to chew on fur. It does this stuff because it loves to. And the guides are just full of chit!! First off there is only a hand full that truly make it to the top. And actually make a living guiding. And they do it by taking advantage of the egotistical wanabes that aren't smart enough to recognize they are beating their trucks and equipment to death for someone else's gain. And also the smart ass guides try to remain lilly white about killing females. By blaming their clients. You know what they say. THE GUY IS PAYING AND HE DON'T CARE IF IT'S A TOM OR A FEMALE IT'S NOT MY FAULT. Well BS, if they made it so expensive that the client had to get a second line of credit at the bank to kill a female. They would see how fast their client WOULD care. Everyone cares when someone gets in their wallet!!! So in reality guides have the cure they just don't give a chit, as has been said many times!



Take care, Willie

+1!

Its all about the paycheck!....At-least that's the mentality a lot of people have these days!! If I had a dollar for every time I heard that " my dogs need game shot out to them so they have more drive!"

Its not only Zone 1 that has the problem of hunters slamming females, there was another zone that has closed ,due to the amount of females killed, since the beginning of January.

Personally, I think it comes down to poor hunting morals. People would rather be proud showing off a small female and have a paycheck in their pocket and its a damn shame!!

I hope change happens before everyone in the these northern zones end up driving for 2 weeks straight looking for a track to run all because they decided to put a little bit of money in their pockets.

Female lions secure the future to the sport we all love, Let them go!

It's sad to see all of these new comers coming into the hound hunting and killing every single thing that they tree. My dad started with hounds a long time ago and every time he would go out and find a track no matter what. Now you can go out and find nothing for a few days. A true houndsman will run a female, take some photos and get some good work in with the dogs. Not just kill it for the hell of it. It doesn't make a dog any better to shoot a female so they can bite at it. Even with younger and smaller toms. Let them grow. At the rate this state is going with everyone shooting females and every single cat they tree, there is not going to be anything left.

Its simple, if you want to kill everything you catch, chase yotes.