BigGameHoundsmen.com

Folks all of us should BE and STAY aware that there are People, Groups, and Organizations out there who want what we LOVE to do STOPPED! These entities will STOOP as low as it takes to HURT Folks who do not see Eye to Eye with their way of what the World ought to be.

Some of these Organizations are in the Law Enforcement business and have been known to infiltrate Undercover Agents into Organizations, Groups, Forums etc. in hopes of exposing Wrong Doing. When done ETHICALLY this is a SOUND Law Enforcement tactic. However Ethics and the Currant "Anti Hunting/Houndsman" campaigns out West are Polar opposites.

A great tactic is to bring a Young Agent who appears even younger than he/she actually is and get them to integrate themselves into a group or Culture to MINE for information!

The Point of all this is, is if something does not SMELL right with a Post or Poster we had better all pay close attention and CALL BS ASAP. When an Agent is confronted with the Question "Are you an Agent or Law Enforcement Officer" in most States they must answer Truthfully.....Federally I do not know. I also do not know if they would have to admit to it here on the Internet.

What I do know is, is that the Hound World is very Small.....when someone NEW Shows up and starts to flunk the SMELL Test, then we should start networking to find out just WHO or WHAT this Poster really is. Not because we are all a bunch of Law Breakers on here, However something said in jest could result in that unwanted knock on the door or the Blue Lights coming on as you and the Hounds are headed to the woods.

We might piss off some person who is just dumb by asking for references but I for one would not mind someone asking around about who I/We hunt with and having any Poster/Member on here call....Heck call me, my number is on every Post and I am always glad to talk unless I am in Alaska fishing, Africa Running Hounds or Argentina looking for a Ranch for Big N Blue and I to retire to!

I have Edited this Post to add that there ARE many Law Enforcement Officers who are members on here.....the few that I know and talk with all seem like "Stand Up, Do the Right Things" kind of Officers. They are the kind of 1st responders who we very much need and Respect!

LE's do not have to say they are LE's when asked. If that was the case, no one could ever work under cover as they would always have to answer that question and put themselves in harms way.

^ true, as a LE officer myself I will clarify that they absolutly do not need to identify themselves. That said, I'm not sure how relevent this post actually is.... This is a hound forum not a dog fighting forum, there is no reason to infiltrate a fourm like this (as far as I have seen at least).

well its as relevant as any post on freedom. this site has been "infiltrated" several times over the years we know of sometimes it has had a real impact on us. others? maybe we don't know yet the result. but the reasoning is simple these groups are against hunting the use of hounds the ownership of animals/livestock , ignorant and emotional or just greedy. it really doesn't matter why they choose to attack us its the fact they do. this often provides them with "proof" of illegal activities or just pics of things they can use to get a rise from some people with. examples are some areas have legal limits on the number of hounds that can be run as a single pack others don't. they dig a picture up of excess numbers and present it as proof someone is breaking the law. this gets people worked up and then they insist on a investigation. doesn't matter that no crime was committed in the region they claim or the area the photo came from. or training pictures/practices that are legal in one area are used in a area the practice isn't, to show houndsmen as law breakers. or they gather info on the hunters to use in targeting who to watch and harass. these are mild incidents but point out the way it is done. there are many post on here that show how these people go through insane lengths sometimes. I don't intend on giving them any further ideas. it just takes the realization that being in a position of authority doesn't make you right or justify your beliefs or actions beyond any citizen. and i'm sure the guys from some specific areas could enlighten us in much more detail to the fallibility of persons in power or uniform. knowing your right and legal is little consolation when your the one being targeted. our blm officers are one of the worst at twisting/breaking laws to suit their actions. not all but then it doesn't take many.

Weston and Tylers Dad, I really hate to disagree with you but Federal Case Law in numerous rulings clearly states that "In most Cases" an Officer acting in Color must acknowledge that they are in Fact Officers.

There very well may be cases where a Judge or Prosecutor has given Authorities permission to NOT acknowledge their True Jobs.....yet a competent Defense Consul well be quick to bring up "Entrapment". Sad thing is that not everyone has the Financial ability to hire more than a Mediocre Attorney who can be bulldozed by the Federal Government's load of Prosecutors.

Now the Reason for this Post is that there are and have been People Posting on here who's only apparent reason for being on here was to "Mine" for information to aid in Game Investigations. One of these Posters had made continual references to "Illegal" Activity in his supposed home State.....mighty funny that a person would get on here and openly declare themselves a Law Breaker....ok maybe there is a Reason????

The Law Enforcement Community has used the Internet to Good Advantage in Child Porn, Child Molestation, Gambling and many other circumstances as well as some GOOD Wildlife Cases being made!

Many of you members who are in Law Enforcement have been open about your Jobs and are and asset to this and any other endeavor which you may under take......others maybe not so much.

My POINT was as Members of this Site when something does not Sound Right, to just start Networking to determine if the Poster in Question is Legit just GREEN or if there is some nefarious intent to their Actions.

Dads dogboy wrote:Weston and Tylers Dad, I really hate to disagree with you but Federal Case Law in numerous rulings clearly states that "In most Cases" an Officer acting in Color must acknowledge that they are in Fact Officers.

There very well may be cases where a Judge or Prosecutor has given Authorities permission to NOT acknowledge their True Jobs.....yet a competent Defense Consul well be quick to bring up "Entrapment". Sad thing is that not everyone has the Financial ability to hire more than a Mediocre Attorney who can be bulldozed by the Federal Government's load of Prosecutors.

Now the Reason for this Post is that there are and have been People Posting on here who's only apparent reason for being on here was to "Mine" for information to aid in Game Investigations. One of these Posters had made continual references to "Illegal" Activity in his supposed home State.....mighty funny that a person would get on here and openly declare themselves a Law Breaker....ok maybe there is a Reason????

The Law Enforcement Community has used the Internet to Good Advantage in Child Porn, Child Molestation, Gambling and many other circumstances as well as some GOOD Wildlife Cases being made!

Many of you members who are in Law Enforcement have been open about your Jobs and are and asset to this and any other endeavor which you may under take......others maybe not so much.

My POINT was as Members of this Site when something does not Sound Right, to just start Networking to determine if the Poster in Question is Legit just GREEN or if there is some nefarious intent to their Actions.

I completly understand the keeping pictures and other "ammuniton" away from the anti's. It became a large problem on predatormasters.com A fourm I have been a part of for a long time. But I will disagree with the federal case law, perhaps there are some circumstances where legitimate entrapment occured that youre thinking of. There are times when law enforcement must identify (such as attempting to take law enforcement action) however the general rule is cops can lie to you, you just cant lie to cops.... Unfair? perhaps. But I'll tell you this job would be a lot more difficult if we were never allowed to lie to people.

Calling it your job sure dont make it right.
A lie is a lie!!!!!

If you lie at work you will lie at home.

Maybe you should get a job that does not compromise your integrity!

Lying started at the bottom of government agencies. And has spread to every level of government like cancer. Didn't take long for all of them to become scumbags. It resides heavily in the White house Administration. But a tsunami of grassroots Americans is watching, and I believe they aren't giving their guns up.




Take care, Willie

mark wrote:Calling it your job sure dont make it right.
A lie is a lie!!!!!

If you lie at work you will lie at home.

Thats not true at all. If I shake someones hand you better bet I will be doing what I say I will do. However, when you are working a rape case and it involves two people, telling one person the other has already talked when they havent, and eventually sets both people off talking and explaining how they committed the crime gets criminals off the street, that is my ultimate goal, I didnt take this job to have "power" over anybody or to wear a badge and a gun to work every day, I took this job to improve MY community, and the tactics that encompass that can involve lying. I'm not going to sugar coat it or tell you it doesnt happen, because then I would be a liar. Hypocritcal? I dont think so obviously each person is entitled to their own opinon.

Not to steer to far off of the original topic as I do agree and have seen some suspicious posts in the past and we all should be mindful of what we post on here and how it could be used against our sport. That is a good warning for members to be reminded of from time to time.

Look, See, Say, isn't that some kinda B.S. mantra now anywho?

It is very honorable to want to serve one's community. In regards to law enforcement. It seems you might better serve your community by running for state senate and repeal so many of these ridiculous laws that you are suppose to enforce. Might be a better use of your time and violent crime and rapes are at historic lows aren't they. That coupled with the militarization of our local police forces makes one wonder sometimes what you might be asked to do and if you(as in policemen) will follow the Constitution or follow orders and "just do your job".

Griz,


I will answer your question. They will continue to do what it takes to draw a check. Until there are several empty chairs at family diner tables. Then and only then will reality set in. And at that time many will have to decide which side is worth dying for. And at that time it will become apparent why no one will ever invade this great country foreign or domestically.


Take care, Willie

well said Willie i typed a long paragraph but deleted it as not to offend anybody ill leave it at that and yes we need to be careful about what we post

While I had typed out a lengthy responses addressing the concerns here it appears I "timed out" and my post wasnt submitted, so I'll try to post a shortened version.

I as well as most of the police officers I know are "constitutionalists" I took an oath to uphold the constitution and would resign if I was ordered to do anything beyond that.

I dislike Eric Holder and am a strong proponent of the 2nd amendment including repealing the NFA.

I would like to eventually get into higher level politics at a state, and hopefully federal level hower right now I'm not in any position to get the political backing to effect that.

Furthermore despite the lowering crime rates (in most areas) there are still very horendus crimes that happen especialy in the county I work in which is on the border. And even with a lowering crime rate there is still the violent criminals which need to be put behind bars at a minimum, and theres a need for people who are willing to do it.

Military weapons and tactics have a place in some departments, if I had to do a Swat situation with just a glock theres no way in hell you could get me to force entry on a house of drug cartels armed with fully automatic assult rifles, especially when these guys are killers with nothing else to lose.

That said, I didnt come here to get into politics or to talk the job, I came here to talk about hunting longtails with hounds! Something I can do to get away from the life of kicking doors and slapping cuffs, therefore I wont be responding to this thread anymore and certainly didnt intend to spark argument, conflict, or distrust.

Weston

if you spend anytime in the "inner circle" of govt. you will quickly see a them and us mentality. to me if our govt. sees a division between the ignorant masses and their highly superior selves then who's side do they represent? look at the location of their residence of choice is it in the locality they "serve" or far away among their govt. brothers? there are more examples of this then the civil servant who lives among those he has professed to serve.
so far as the use of lies or misinformation to get to facts. it can all be explained from any perspective. doesn't make it true or right. it's like torture. if I beat on your feet with a cane would you admit to a murder you hadn't committed? what if I held your wife ,children and began to skin them before you one at a time ? there seems to be a line in all things yet it moves and adjust its position in accordance to who is evaluating it and what the effects it is perceived by them to have on their person or those they care for. if a person who has no personal connection to a conflict may lie and misinform to influence people. what level does that hold someone who may have a loved one at risk? laws are neither right nor wrong in and of the fact it is a law.
a leo is not a good or bad thing, its the values and principles that officer holds that decides the question. same with any person in uniform or power. often the only thing that truly defines that is if that person feels kinship with those he interacts with or not. often that one identifying trait is quit slight. perhaps a common language or even as slight as your accent. so like CJ pointed out if it doesn't look, sound, smell, or behave like a houndsmen it probably isn't and that puts them on the other side of the fence until proven otherwise.