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I have three pups right now and thats all i have.still beeing new to most of this i am wondering what i should be looking for in a lead dog seeing as how all my pups have different traits and qualitys.

The Lead dog ( Alpha dog) you are looking for is looking back at you when you look in the mirror. You first and foremaost with 3 pups need to figure out if they are all different and that leads me to beleive they are unrelated, which most likely fits the type of hunting you plan on doing.

Three pups at the same time is too much for even a seasoned professional dog man to try to train out at the same time, and is a sure remedy for defeat with a newcomer. If you buy an older trained dog and saddle him with three pups to lead around likely he will screw up on you and quit the game as well. You have to be the leader first.
So set down think what you really want out of this sport and where you want to go and then get ready to make an investment and move forward.

I think Mike is painting a pretty gloomy unrealistic picture. Lots of guys go catch game wih young dogs. If you are willing to put in the time with each pup, working with them each by themselves every day til your season starts, you have good odds of being successful given the dogs are not culls. 8-9 month old dogs can catch their own game if you put in the time and effort training. Alot of guys have more than 3 pups at the same time and do just fine. If they are not culls is very key. Keep working with them, weed out the ones that won't get it done, and get a start dog for em if you want. Starting with puppies is a much higher odds proposition than trying to buy a dog that will catch game for them IMO. Older dogs seldom are what yuo want them to be unless you go hunt with alot of differnt ones before you buy and spend a sizeable amount of money. Make those puppies turn out how you want them to, and a start dog won't hurt anything, if its worth a crap it will keep hunting with three pups behind it, and if the three pups are worth a crap they will help out and catch game with it.

Larry

I agree that it is not easy to find good dogs that catch game for sale, especially cheap. Lots of stuff gets peddled around.

BUT, to compare that to trying to train 3 puppies at once with NO lead dog isn't even close. That is a Migrane waiting to happen. Young Dogs learn by being put on game. The best way to do that is to have an experienced dog to get them there. Eventually you'll need to see if they've got the stuff to take over and become a stand alone dog. But that is putting the cart before the horse.

My personal rule of thumb is to have one old dog for every pup. And for the first experiences to only have one pup out at a time, until they get a feel for what they should be doing. Then you can add more in the mix. If you toss out three pups at once I can just about guarantee it's going to be a grab ass session with a LOW chance of doing any sort of game catching.

Jarret if you want to get those pups cranking, first show them a critter and see if they fire. If they don't find shelf them and find an old dog that will bay to see if that sparks them. If that doesn't work release the critter and let them watch it run off, and see if that flips the switch. Once you find one that is fired up take the BEST one with you and find a guy with dogs that might let you tag along. If you're lucky you'll get that pup going on the right track, then bring one of the other pups after you've already got one going good. Don't be surprised if only one or none of the pups makes the grade.

thanks for all the tips.all my pups are from the same litter(good or bad dont know)all three dogs open on the smell of bear and while running on a bear drag,trying to get them on cats now,i have three other guys who will let me run with them all have old and young dogs some that are very experienced.but still wondering what traits are best for a lead dog.

I don't know enough about having experienced hounds. But I know Plenty about having too many young dogs.. And it's not very fun..

Well.. scratch that.. it's still fun but not very productive.


Larry,
I think there are guys that can take Young Pups and catch game also.. I've seen it happen.. But I'd call that guy a seasoned Cat hunter, or a Bear Hunter, Someone who already knows the game and knows Off game.

My Problem was figuring out when those young dogs were Schooling me.. Or when I was Schooling them.. You might have forgetten.. but It's a Pretty Blurry line when your just starting out.. LOL..

Jarett, The trait i look for is reliabibilty, hunt them alot with older dogs the one that starts making most of races, trees with purpose and sometime will be leading the pack, (hopefully on game, but don't frown to much even if its a deer) usually will stand out, my suggestion is don't switch to much back and forth with dogs, when you make a decision stick with him a while even if he was a couple bad outings..

I have to go with Mike and Nolte on this one.3 pups at once is a wreck waiting to happen.At least two will be honoring each other ,not the old seasoned dog.Also they are useally faster and blow the track for the old dog.Especially on cats.just my opinion

I understand where everybody is coming from on this, but the main thing that is being passed over is our need for instant gratification. Sure the older dog will get things moving along for the hunter, and the pups, to an extent, but stop and think about the dogs those pups will turn into if they are forced to do it on thier own or be culled. The older dog will also prolong the amount of time you spend on dogs that need to be culled. Each dog should be able to get it done any given day on any given track. I don't think 3 young dogs will be a circus if it is the right 3 dogs. Take away the older dog and walk out tracks with the young ones, spend the entire season to catch one animal with young dogs, and make them into outstanding dogs. One thing that has not been mentioned as well is that if the older dog has any flaws, the younger ones will be picking those up as well. Not saying that i haven't done exactly what is being suggested by others either, I too needed instant gratification like everybody else, just think that the dogs will be much better without a crutch. I also agree and disagree with the experience level of the houndsman trying to acomplish this. It is a valid point, but has been proven wrong also. I know of a houndsman that decided he was gonna get some pups, never had hounds before. 1st year houndsman with two dogs 9-10 months old by lion season....he caught somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 lions and 8-9 bob's with those two puppies

well all i can do is try to be patient with the dogs and spend as much time as i can with them and hope they do good for me.i think if i give them a chance they will perform.i will let u guys know if it turns into a circus

Larry

I have seen some pups that were complete naturals from the get go. Made it seem like any idiot could train a hound and with these dogs that was probably true. I mean I did pretty easy.

Now I've seen many, many more dog out of those same dogs or line of dogs, NOT be that way. Some never made it and some made fine dogs after getting through a few bumps when they were young. All I know is that you can cycle through a lot of dogs to get that A1 natural pup. And if you're real luck that natural pup won't be a flash in the pan and finish out into a real nice dog.

"Each dog should be able to get it done any given day on any given track"

Let me know when you find a litter of pups that can do this from top to bottom at 8-9 mos old. I'l be first in line to buy the whole next litter. I might not be able to take them all, but I know I can find a home for them. From my experience you're damn lucky to get 2-3 above average, 2-3 good average dogs, and a couple that need to be culled.

In your example of hunting them all year to catch one critter, why not hunt them with an old dog for a couple weeks to see the right critter and then get them on some tracks of their own. It jumps starts the process by ten fold. I had a couple young dogs on the first couple days of bear season that I tried to put on a bear that had just crossed the road. They looked at me like WTF is this. Well they came into a tree with me and I waited till the bear moved around and came down. They then figured out the game pretty quick, now they be at most the bear trees and will even try to work out a colder track. They might not finish it but they'll try to work it out. If would have just tried to keep put them on tracks, I'd bet I'd still be at the same point as the first day.

In our neck of the woods, you're going to have a LONG wait to see a bobcat in a tree if you're only running a couple green pups. Long might not even be the right word.

mike you wrote

So set down think what you really want out of this sport and where you want to go and then get ready to make an investment and move forward.

what investment do you mean?

Jarrett, you must be very patient. Again, you must be very patient. Depending on how much you are into instant gratification you must also be ready for a huge amount of disappointment, anger, frustration and FUN!! Trust me I know. I started from scratch with two pups, then when they were about 1.5 years old I bought a started dog that was rigging some and had been on some bear and lion. Well he wasn't that started and I've been basically training three inexperienced hounds with no pup trainer. It is a lot of fun though and as long as you try to keep it that way then you can do it too. The one thing to remember is that with more than one pup every training exercise you do has to be done seperately with each pup. Then you have the whole littermate issue. It isn't really as much of an issue as it, in my opinion, is behavior. I too had littermates and they seem to have a much closer/stronger bond with each other and they also seem to screw off more when they are together than when I am hunting one of them with my other hound.

You said you have friends that would allow you to run your pups with them. Definitely take advantage of that or send a pup out for training with a reliable trainer so they can see and smell what they are supposed to be after and it should speed things up, as Nolte said.

I think what Mike was trying to say(not trying to speak for him), but figure out what you are after. Do you want to catch game immediately or are you content with success taking 3-5 years or more? Then make the investment wether it's an older broke dog, training with a trainer or friend, time in the field, boot leather, better bread pups, etc. depending on what you are after. Then make the most and get out there and have some fun. That is what all this is about. Just my $.02.

I do have a lot of patience and i dont really care if i have instint success to tell u the truth i dont care if i ever catch any game i just like to spend time in the woods with my dogs. I can only afford and the room for one trophy mount hopefully a book lion, so if getting that takes time i could care less.

Nolte wrote:Larry

I have seen some pups that were complete naturals from the get go. Made it seem like any idiot could train a hound and with these dogs that was probably true. I mean I did pretty easy.

Now I've seen many, many more dog out of those same dogs or line of dogs, NOT be that way. Some never made it and some made fine dogs after getting through a few bumps when they were young. All I know is that you can cycle through a lot of dogs to get that A1 natural pup. And if you're real luck that natural pup won't be a flash in the pan and finish out into a real nice dog.

"Each dog should be able to get it done any given day on any given track"

Let me know when you find a litter of pups that can do this from top to bottom at 8-9 mos old. I'l be first in line to buy the whole next litter. I might not be able to take them all, but I know I can find a home for them. From my experience you're damn lucky to get 2-3 above average, 2-3 good average dogs, and a couple that need to be culled.

In your example of hunting them all year to catch one critter, why not hunt them with an old dog for a couple weeks to see the right critter and then get them on some tracks of their own. It jumps starts the process by ten fold. I had a couple young dogs on the first couple days of bear season that I tried to put on a bear that had just crossed the road. They looked at me like WTF is this. Well they came into a tree with me and I waited till the bear moved around and came down. They then figured out the game pretty quick, now they be at most the bear trees and will even try to work out a colder track. They might not finish it but they'll try to work it out. If would have just tried to keep put them on tracks, I'd bet I'd still be at the same point as the first day.

In our neck of the woods, you're going to have a LONG wait to see a bobcat in a tree if you're only running a couple green pups. Long might not even be the right word.

Not saying it has to be that A1 natural pup, just saying that the end result will be better. As far as that litter you're talking about goes, the dogs are out there. What about the older dogs bad habits? How many people can afford a finished super dog to train thier pups? I can't. Of the two houndsmen that i have known personnally, and have been said to have the best dogs around bar none by ALOT of people who didn't know them personally, they don't train pups with other dogs.