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What are the pros and cons of rerunning bobcats? I have not read much about it. Does it do the dogs any good?

running dog, I'm totally against it. Don't mean i'm right I just don't see what good could come having my dogs leaving a tree with a hot track. I know a older very successful hunter who does it and I know another who feel's how I feel about it. My dog's are not tree minded dog's there more track minded so I don't want any kinda thing messing with there treeing ability.

I have no experience doing this with cats but I did run a few coons this past summer and knocked a couple out for the dogs to re-run. With my good dog it did not seem to affect her in anyway, she stays treed as long as she needs to no matter how long I take getting there. With my pups it was a different story, the first and only cat they've treed was only a few weeks after knocking a coon out and they only stayed treed for a few minutes and were making big circles hunting again when I got to the tree even tho my good dog stayed treed. The tree was a HUGE fir tree so I know they couldn't see the cat but I thought they should've stayed treed with my good dog. I think I was teaching them to start hunting again by re-running the coon instead of just praising them and letting them stay treed on the first tree they caught him in. I think until they have a pretty good handle on treeing and staying treed it might not be a good idea. Just my opinion from what I've seen with my own

There is a lot of folk lore about jumping out bobcats most of it is not true. It will make the cat harder to tree next time when you run it in the future. It will help the dogs at treeing and located where the cat is by seeing it move around before jumping. It will give the young dogs more experience on bobcats if you have limited time and cats to hunt. As far as making them poorer tree dogs or hunting around a tree that is breeding and can be corrected by the hunter. There is a lot one can do to refine a bobcat dog most of it takes years of hunting and learning for yourself what works and what does not work. Good hunting Dewey

Not that i make a habit out of it but i have never had jumping game out affect pups in any negative way and seemed to get pups that were a little week on the tree, to tree harder with that said i do not like to jump cats out that I would not wanna take home as in my limited experience with jumping them out a good percent are caught on the ground. I haven't had that issue with fox for what ever reason (slow dogs) but have with cat.

I actually think it helps with treeing. I want my dogs to stay focused on treeing the animal. I have heard stories of empty trees and the theory that the cat jumped but the dogs stayed treed. By jumping game out I think it help the dogs focus more on the animal rather than tree to tree.

I read your post and re read it Dewey and do you think you as the handler affect your catching ability more than the breeding? What's the percentage? Mind talking me through that? Pertaining to dhostetlers post why not just go find another to run? Lots of trail jump tree seems to make dogs tree from my experience. Or if lack of game is the problem com back after its left and cut it coming across the road or free cast them where it may have came out. I have never seen or believed a story about a cat jumping out, if I see it once maybe I'll believe it (except junipers). I just hear it far to often that it jumped or it must've tapped the tree and that's why they located. I think more or less its the type of dog that is susceptible on pulling up short and treeing. One dog that doesn't buy into that will get you sorted through lotsa dogs in my opinion...

Running dog i have had some experience jumping cats out, what I found was it depends on the breeding of the dog, if it can cause them to start roaming off the tree looking for a track leaving that tree. I have sure seen it on a dog or two, those were not as strong tree bred as the ones who it never had that same effect on. I am now a person who believes it is not a good idea, just my opinion. And most cat can be very hard to jump out the first few times. Al

al baldwin wrote:Running dog i have had some experience jumping cats out, what I found was it depends on the breeding of the dog, if it can cause them to start roaming off the tree looking for a track leaving that tree. I have sure seen it on a dog or two, ... Al

When I was young and learning to coon hunt in Iowa, an older competition hunter told me very firmly to NEVER shake out a coon. And to make a sure and killing shot if the coon was to be shot. "If he comes out at all, he comes out dead".

That was coon, where there often is more than one track, and training for competition where a dog had to hold his tree with other dogs running.

I agree with Al though. There are times and dogs where it probably doesn't hurt and might help. I probably wouldn't recommend it to an inexperienced handler though. I think only a lot of experience would inform the decision about a questionable situation or dog that might be harmed by it.

And like Merlo mentioned I know of hunters in the "80 killed cats per year" class who do jump cats out. So there is something to be learned from that. Maybe if you can follow up the jump outs with 80 that come out dead...

I once bought a dog that I found out would run the back track off a tree just like it was a jumped out race. I am sure it was a genetic pre-disposition, and I can't know for sure if it had been triggered by having cats jumped out to her, but knowing where she came from, my guess is that was part of her training.

I agree with both sides of the argument here and can see how it can affect differently different dogs. I think it can help train pups to tree better. They see it coming out and may even see it climb on a rerun. To me false treeing is the absolute worse trait in a dog except of course fighting. I prefer my dogs to second guess that something is treed rather than hike 2 miles into an empty tree.

dhostetler wrote: I have heard stories of empty trees and the theory that the cat jumped but the dogs stayed treed. By jumping game out I think it help the dogs focus more on the animal rather than tree to tree.

dhostetler wrote: To me false treeing is the absolute worse trait in a dog except of course fighting. I prefer my dogs to second guess that something is treed rather than hike 2 miles into an empty tree.

One thing to consider...The locating "tree" hound vs. the running dog cross...One wants to tree and the other wants to advance the track...I find no more slick trees with the running dog x vs hounds.

I had a reg. walker hound that caught cats on a regular basis...When a man finds seven cats to every ten trees, he makes excuses for the other three trees or 30% ...Those aren't bobcat dogs. The cat must have jumped.. The cat must have tapped the tree....Locating tree dogs tend to grab those trees, running dog x tend to continue looking for the outbound track. I watch my dogs take fifteen minutes to lock down now vs slide in sideways and tree...

That's the type of dog you like. A dog that pushes a track and locates cuz it has too, its a type not a breed. You may have found more of that type in a certain strain but to generalize and say running dog crosses ARE that way may be a little much. The worse false treer I ever seen was a running dog cross and she was a dandy in her day but with old age came a few faults just my experience.. Take it for what it's worth

oneguy 828 I feel my experience and years hunting dogs and being able to read what the dog is doing most of time as soon as the dogs does it makes all the difference in the world. First there is no time wasted on running trash thus more hours hunted, more cats treed and more training for young dogs. Knowing what is going on and what to do to correct a problem before it becomes a problem and knowing whats going right as a hunter gives me a advantage. Having the dogs well discipline saves time and makes the hunt more enjoyable. Cat hunting is time and distance, covering the most distance in the shortest amount of time. Knowing when a dog has treed a cat not locate or killed one on the ground and going in to find that animal has made a big difference in take for me. I have seen a lot of dogs with good breeding and good traits never do well with a person that can not get the full potential out of a dog. For me to make top bobcat dogs it is the hardest thing to do in the hound hunting world. It takes a lot of time thus experience to excel. That said most any dog or anybody can catch a few bobcats. To go out and tree almost every bobcat you start or jump day after day is done by very few hunters. A couple of years ago I had a very experience hound man come up and hunt with me. He was 72 years old at the time and had guided hunters with hounds successfully in several states. At the end of the day the first comment he made to me was I think you could take any dog and catch a bobcat with it. He also bought a pup and loves it. He like the dogs but also was able to see my ability to get the best out of a dog. That said there are very few dogs or type of dogs that I will waste my time on trying to make it into something it is not. I am trying to explain something that may not come across to some of you for lack of words. I hunt bobcats, when I want to go catch a steelhead or salmon I go with someone that knows what he is doing because I don't and don't waste my time fishing by myself to catch nothing. Good hunting Dewey

You think the alpha has made you a better cat hunter?

I am not sure where you are going with this? I am the alpha with my dogs, I am the leader of them. AS far as people goes, I have always been a go ahead in charge person. I started my first business when I was 19, bought my first property at 20. I have work for myself most of my life but have been in charge of other people when I worked for someone else. I always look for what can be done not what can't be done. I believe in being 100% responsible for what I have done or do, for me that is the most powerful way to live my life doing what I love to do. Yes I can see where people would consider me an alpha. We are who we are, it is hard to be someone we are not. I have never thought about it thanks for bringing it to my attention. Dewey