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We read on here about dogs that are cold nosed and can really move a track. Some of them were terrier crosses and other breeds that are not noted for cold noses. My question is cold nose and really moving a track two different things? Is a dog that really grubs a track really cold nosed? Do all dogs have the ability to smell good enough to catch game? Is the only difference in a cold nosed dog is all the other traits that come along with a dog except the nose ability? Just maybe when we breed for cold nose we breed away from catching game? When we breed for speed do we breed away from cold nose? Can we have it all? Just some things to think about. I would like to know what everyone thinks. No right or wrong thoughts just our experiences. I know that different dogs do better or not in different conditions and some it does not seem to make a difference. Good hunting Dewey

I think cold nose is developed through the type of training you do. For example I had a great Black and Tan who was a cold trailing lion dog he was one of the hounds I started out with.
Not knowing anything but what a lion track looked like I didn't know the difference between cold nose and hot nosed. All I knew was if I found a track we could catch it. I started dabbling in lynx. It was always said it was difficult to catch a lynx and at first it was. Once I started breeding for brains and speed I started catching lynx and a lot of them. That Black and tan never did catch a lynx on his own but as the years went on he did stay closer in to the race and was never to far behind at a tree.
I had a proven Lightfoot English hound come here she didn't stay long in my kennel as she could not trail a lynx track worth beans. I don't believe she had a hot nose I think she needed to learn what a fresh track smelled like.
I was hunting with Martell one day and had hunted this English dog all winter and told Mike she would not make the grade. I found a smoker track and put her down 2 minutes later she was still in sight maybe 50 yards out, I put down my black and tan Rudy, 2 minutes later they both were still insight maybe 100 yards out.
I finally had enough and dumped Zoey out and in under 5 minutes she had the cat treed not 400 yards from the sleds. Zoey is a grade walker with very little "pedigree" My best lynx dogs have been only half hound so who know what kind of nose they had.
My point to all this is not the quality of nose, I still believe most dogs are built equal it how they learn to use it that makes a difference.

Not all dogs have the same nose but even if you did find several dogs that could be considered the same you would probably discover their tracking styles would be tremendously different.
A dogs nose power and tracking ability are two separate things and when you add intelligence in you'll really see some variations in a hounds game catching ability!

I don't know how to count scent receptors, but evidently some one does. They say a German Shepherd has 225 million scent receptors; a beagle, 250 million scent receptors, and a Bloodhound 300 million scent receptors.; and 5 million scent receptors in human beings.

So, if we believe them, we can put to rest the thought that all dogs can smell the same. But maybe within the breeds we use for cat, the difference in number of scent receptors would be minimal.

to me it seems like a difference of 5 million makes a big difference Because I can sometimes smell a coon in a tree with my 5 million scent receptors, where as a rock or something with 1 million scent receptors might not be able to. And that is a difference of only four million scent receptors. So if your dog has 4 million more scent receptors than my dog, ... Well, it might make a difference. ??

A blood hound probably has 50 million more

Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, but just in case...

I heard one time that the length of a dogs nose can have an effect on how many scent receptors. Don't know whether it is true or not. The gentleman that told me this had some running dog crosses with short snouts and he was going to breed them back to a treeing hound with a long snout. Anyone else ever heard such a thing?

One thing to consider Rshcwisdom, would be the comparative size of the beagles nose with 250 million to the German Shepherds nose with 225 million.

But I have never seen a scent receptor or measured one. Maybe the beagles are smaller?
And if so, what effect would size have.

Oh I am already in so far over my head. I need to wade back to shallow water.

What the man said sounds logical. I have not heard that one, but will pay more attention.

They can count all the scent receptors they want, they will never convince me that all dogs, or even littermates have the same scenting ability.
My middle son and I can smell things way better than my wife or other two sons. Some scents she likes nearly knocks me down and there can't be very much difference in the number of receptors we have.
Have hunted with packs of 2 to 20 plus with all appearing to have great desire to catch what they run. Some can smell it some can't, one dog can take that cold track and go with it, others will work their £ss off smelling everywhere the trailing dog does, in front of it and behind it, but shows no indication that they can smell it until the track warms up.
Then the pack mates fall in at different stages as their scenting ability allows

In my opinion [the value of which is questionable] selecting for performance will solve the problem of, nose? drive? speed? style? conformation? head width? nose length? etc, etc. By selecting your breeding stock from the individuals that are "consistently" at the tree first and stays the longest, with the desired game in the tree, you will be selecting for the dog that is best suited for catching game in your territory when hunting in your individual style of hunting. The above will self adjust itself for dry ground, snow, brush, wet, dry, open timber. These dogs have proven that they have the best, most balanced set of attributes for performing in the conditions that define your hunting.

There is at least one major assumption or fallacy in my post above. I am assuming that the dog that consistently catches the most game is contributing as much or more than his fair share in moving the track all the way from cold strike to the tree. He / she is not just a speed demon that hangs around while a talented cold nosed dog works a track up until it is hot enough for a foot race to the catch. This desirable individual should be able to start his own cold track, trail it up then drive it to the catch while alone or in company.

Chilcotin,

I always enjoy your posts and I learn a lot from them, thanks!

I have never run a lynx but I would like to. Found a fresh lynx track in the snow one day near the Colorado border. when I first saw it from a distance I though it was a small lion but looking down into the track you could sure tell the difference. I never pulled a dog out to try it because I knew all these lynx around here are wearing collars and there is usually a Biologist not far behind and later I found out I was right. They transplanted some over near here in SW Colorado and they roam quite a bit. I don't think this project is doing very well as some of them have been found starved to death.

When it comes to cold nose I find the longer I hunt the less I know, but I do know that when it comes to catching came consistently it takes a combination of factors to come together.

Bare ground lion hunting on arid desert type terrain will certainly separate the pack. What is such a humbling experience is when you have been pounding out an area for days and you can't find a track or see a track and them all of a sudden you introduce a new dog or a buddy shows up with old tried and true and shows you that have been riding over lion tracks while your pot lickers just pissing around and smelling butts. And then what will make you really boil is when this real dog strikes and gets it going your dogs wake up and go in and work hard on it. Just don't think from that point they will become that great dog from watching him they either have it or they don't.

X2. I'm with Scrubrunner all the way on this topic!

Make that x 3, fully agree. Al

I think it's easier to say dogs smell differently then to explain why some do this and some do that better. If you took 5 hounds hunted them from scratch for three or four years and then added two Better cold trailers then the 5 you already have would those 5 cold trail better? Would they start taking colder tracks? Now some dogs got it and some don't that's the exception

merlo_105 wrote: If you took 5 hounds hunted them from scratch for three or four years and then added two Better cold trailers then the 5 you already have would those 5 cold trail better? Would they start taking colder tracks?

In my limited experience, my answer to your question is: yes; They would start noticing smaller traces of scent, and when they experience catching a cat off a track they would not have fooled with before, they start working harder, with the dog that is teaching them what is possible.

They may never be as great as him at it, but they will be better than they used to be.

But it requires a handler that values cold tracking and taking as much time as necessary to grub up an old track.

I have not known many handlers that put that kind of value to cold tracking. Some handlers are annoyed by it and won't allow it. It takes up a lot of time and effort.

My experience is that they will get better. So there nose didn't get any better but there drive did. So wouldn't that lean towards drive to complete the track then some dogs smell better or have better noses? Guys who cold trail make cold trailers something I have seen in my limited time.