BigGameHoundsmen.com

There are an estimated 30-33,000 black bears in California. The season limit is 1700.
Our Fish and Game biologists do an excellent job. The only irrational emotion in California involves mountain lions and that's a whole differnt can of worms.
Yes, problem bears are no longer relocated, they are shot. This problem is mainly confined to the Tahoe Basin. More bears get killed by vehicles. Problem bears are usually dispatched by wardens under the authority of a depradation permit. So much for the accuracy of the quoted paragraph.
Shooting a bear over bait isn't hunting, It is culling.Culling is a very important tool in game management. Just don't call it hunting cause it ain't! This magazine only pays lip service to houndsmen. It's more like an oversized brochure for guides. The few articles on hound hunting are so general and boring they make your local club's newsletter like an issue of Full Cry, a much superior publication. Part three coming soon

Pete,

I always seem to have that uneasy feeling looking through that magazine...and it strikes me about the same way as you noted. Seems like the magazine works at glorifying killing bear over bait. Granted, its the only way some people know how to hunt. If there's enough bear to support that kind of "hunting" I personally do not object. But in honesty...all those articles about "what's the best bear gun" are silly when they're talking about black bear. Killing a bear most times is akin to shooting somebody's pig.
Here in Michigan an above average bear now days is anything over 115 lbs. So, just how much firepower does a bait-sitter really need!

The guy that's been writing the articles on bear hunting with hounds...based on his experiences tagging along with a guide...recently made a statement about how...gritty bear dogs never live long. Experienced dog hunters know that's BS, but the anti's just love reading that kind of crap...and its just one more false statement to use against us.

We hunted Washington after dogs were shut down. I could not believe the number of people that would say without bait you just had to get lucky. I told them that was B.S., where would you be on a hot day with a fur coat on? Drop into a dark cool canyon and you'll find bear. Well the look on their faces said it all. If the odds weren't stacked in their favor they wanted nothing to do with it. God forbid having to get up close and personal with a bear in the bottom of a dark canyon.
I don't have much use for the long range gunners either. A lot of sows get killed because the cubs aren't seen. The average person wants to take the "Danger" out of hunting Dangerous Game. I guess I can't blame them, no gun is too large for a spider.

Went back and read the article written by Stephen Carpenteri starting on page 51...in the Jan/Feb addition of the magazine. He tells how the guide's dogs ran a coon for several hours! Must have been one bad-ass coon.

RAN A COON FOR HOURS..................CLASSIC. LOL

read that article also and just shook my head. there is a lot of good guides out there but it only takes one or two bad ones to put a bad taster in your mouth. but i would like to meet a coon like that

I get where your coming from,sitting on a bait is not my cup of tea I sell bait hunts but have never personaly sat on a bait,If I couldnt run hounds I wouldnt guide bear hunters. but I hear this from all sides,bait hunters think running dogs is not sporting, shooting a bear out of a tree is unethical.I realize that this is stated by people who have never done it.I couldnt do it but I respect people who have the patience to sit for hours or days on a bait waiting for a bear to show up.I certainly wouldnt down any hunting method without trying it.I just dont see how this is going to benefit any hunters by downing the way other guys are doing it.We are severly out numbered by hunters who sit in trees to shoot there game.The magazine isnt perfect but it is the only one that I now of that tries to be an advocate of houndsmen on a regulare basis.JMO. PS My kill percentage on my hound hunts is higher than on my bait hunts,maybe its not as easy as we think.

I am glad someone called out the writing of Stephen Carpenteri in the magazine. I was so bothered by his article in the March/April issue called, "What Bear Hounds Really Do" that I was sorely tempted to write to the Editor. It was nothing short of embarrassing, and reeked of tremendous ignorance and inexperience. His choice of jargon such as "ground-treeing" bear and reference to counting coup (not only inaccurate but awkward when used in a houndhunting context) were laughable. I am not sure if it's just my ignorance of the terms you folks back East use, but out here in the West, we call a "ground-treeing" bear a bayed bear. Maybe it's just me, but "ground-treeing" seems like an oxymoron...how fitting that it comes from a moron.

Furthermore, I cringed at his emphasis of the "long and bloody road", the dogs being ripped to shreds, and the rest of the carnage that he describes as being typical. I don't think we need to fictionalize hunting by any means nor offer a Disney version, but his focus on the death of dogs is either irrelevant or is apparently what the author thinks is what bear hounds really do. Either way, he is dead wrong. I can't begin to tell you in this public forum all of the things I would do with this article to further my cause were I an anti-hunter.

Having him as a feature writer certainly calls the magazine's judgment and quality into question.

I personally would never hunt over bait, as it has absolutely no appeal to me. However, I will defend the opportunity of someone else to pursue that method if that is their interest to do so.

I honestly think that ethics have no place being established and enforced at the collective level; it is a subjective determination that should be left to each individual to determine. The government should focus on putting regulations in place that will ensure the survival and prosperity of our natural resources rather than trying to decide what is sporting or "fair chase." If a particular method does not threaten or harm the survival and prosperity of a species, or if it will help an agency meet its management objectives, then it should be legal.

Spruce Mountain, your post made mention of the anti-dog hunters old worn-out claim, shooting a treed bear is unethical. I'm wondering how you respond to someone spewing that crap. The way I respond is to say...its a dog sport, its not a shooting sport, it does not take much skill to kill a bear at close range and most dog hunters I am associated with let most of them go. Can't say that about the bait sitters.

How I respond to that question very's.I guess it depends on the mood Im in.Sometimes I just say to each thier own.I guess it also depends on how they approach me.Some people you can tell right off that they just want to start a fight and nothing you can say is going to change thier mind.They are just ignorant and want to argue about something they obviously no nothing about.Sometimes I will just tell people that the shot is such a small part of the hunt that its not even funny .The thrill of the hunt is what has taken place to get to the shot,then I give them examples of what goes on during the hunt.Other times I will just say yea your right its way harder to sit in the tree and shoot down than it is to stand on the ground and shoot up.That usually makes them think a little.

spruce mountain wrote:I get where your coming from,sitting on a bait is not my cup of tea I sell bait hunts but have never personaly sat on a bait,If I couldnt run hounds I wouldnt guide bear hunters. but I hear this from all sides,bait hunters think running dogs is not sporting, shooting a bear out of a tree is unethical.I realize that this is stated by people who have never done it.I couldnt do it but I respect people who have the patience to sit for hours or days on a bait waiting for a bear to show up.I certainly wouldnt down any hunting method without trying it.I just dont see how this is going to benefit any hunters by downing the way other guys are doing it.We are severly out numbered by hunters who sit in trees to shoot there game.The magazine isnt perfect but it is the only one that I now of that tries to be an advocate of houndsmen on a regulare basis.JMO. PS My kill percentage on my hound hunts is higher than on my bait hunts,maybe its not as easy as we think.

I agree, at least they do have some hound hunting articles, a few issues back they had a hound hunting special addition.
All we can do here is hunt over bait, no hound hunting. I have set baits and killed a couple but would rather hunt over dogs any day. I'm to the point in my life I could care less if I ever kill another bear, just like running them with the dogs.
I will always try and defend another's sport though. I can never see myself running deer with hounds but if it's legally for others then go for it.
I may not want to do it but I will help defend their rite, as I think all TRUE SPORTSMEN should.

Budd Denny wrote:

spruce mountain wrote:I get where your coming from,sitting on a bait is not my cup of tea I sell bait hunts but have never personaly sat on a bait,If I couldnt run hounds I wouldnt guide bear hunters. but I hear this from all sides,bait hunters think running dogs is not sporting, shooting a bear out of a tree is unethical.I realize that this is stated by people who have never done it.I couldnt do it but I respect people who have the patience to sit for hours or days on a bait waiting for a bear to show up.I certainly wouldnt down any hunting method without trying it.I just dont see how this is going to benefit any hunters by downing the way other guys are doing it.We are severly out numbered by hunters who sit in trees to shoot there game.The magazine isnt perfect but it is the only one that I now of that tries to be an advocate of houndsmen on a regulare basis.JMO. PS My kill percentage on my hound hunts is higher than on my bait hunts,maybe its not as easy as we think.

I agree, at least they do have some hound hunting articles, a few issues back they had a hound hunting special addition.
All we can do here is hunt over bait, no hound hunting. I have set baits and killed a couple but would rather hunt over dogs any day. I'm to the point in my life I could care less if I ever kill another bear, just like running them with the dogs.
I will always try and defend another's sport though. I can never see myself running deer with hounds but if it's legally for others then go for it.
I may not want to do it but I will help defend their rite, as I think all TRUE SPORTSMEN should.

Well said Budd I agree with you 100%.

I probably don't need to tell many of you this, but this is exactly what the antis want. They would love nothing more than to divide us in numbers because of the method in which we hunt. And from what I'm seeing here, it's happening. When we start talking about BANNING a magazine that promotes hunting, I would say we fell right into PETA's arms.. If you guys want to ban something, go to United State Sportmens Alliance website and learn who the real enemies are..JMO
I'll get of my soapbox now..

I don't hunt bear over bait, or run dogs off of bait. Some people do and I'm alright with that.