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hello
I was just curious about something, I have finally found another pup and was thinking about hunting it in the snow for the first season. I figured that way I could keep it only on bobcats as I will be breaking it off everything else. just wondering on the best way to start it because I will be training it and hunting it mostly by her self. I have read mike leonards post on pup training and will use that. but just wondering about the first season of hunting I live by the oregon coast and there are alot of deer and elk so I was thinking the snow would make life easier if I could always see the track I started her on. any info would be great.

I applaud your enthusiasm. I've started a few bobcat dogs and I'm not the best but since no one else answered I'll do my best not to misguide you too much. first the dog has to come from good cat dogs period especially since it's your first try. believe me it's hard enough by yourself with a good one and most people aren't pig headed enough to take the wrong blood line and MAKE a cat dog out of it. even if you do it will be the same fight with the offspring. desire is a absolute must so if the pup doesn't show it, let it hunt bears or what ever interest it... after those requirements have been meet mike's cat training or any good training method should be used until YOU have faith in the dog. because you'll have plenty of opportunity to wonder/doubt once you do start real cats. don't correct the dog unless your 100% sure they are trashing and only severely after it's got it right a few times. I'll get bashed for this but snow does help to select tracks few people are good enough to actually find dry ground bobcat tracks much less follow them anymore. so find a track your sure is fresh enough to run pack a lunch and follow it encourage your dog if it falters. being careful not to develop over dependence on you by the dog " stay back outa the way" once your hound knows you want that cat and you will be there sooner or later after it trees it. you have a STARTED cat dog . after this hunt the dog as often as you can and the rest is up to the hound. OR you can buy/barrow /beg a finished hound from someone else and skip six months of hard work. keep in mind that there are way better bobcat dogs out there then what I use so you may get one that can do it all by itself at 5 month,s. that said I do prefer the first method. I'm sure some one else has a better method and you'll probably hear about that too. good luck and have fun

Pegleg,

I doubt that anyone could give this fellow any better advise!

Anyone taking it and perservering enough you should end up with a "Cat Hound"!

C. John Clay
Dads Dogboy

thanks for the responce! If anyone ever gets the chance they can call me at 503-875-2722 (cell) or 503-324-9199 (home) I would love to learn more I have hunted with hounds for some time but this will be my first indevor at straight cat hunting. best of luck to all an have a great up coming season.
STACEY ROBESON

Good post pegleg you pretty much said it all.

THANKS GUYS I'm sure I missed something I generally do!

pegleg wrote:I applaud your enthusiasm. don't correct the dog unless your 100% sure they are trashing and only severely after it's got it right a few times. I'll get bashed for this but snow does help to select tracks few people are good enough to actually find dry ground bobcat tracks much less follow them anymore. good luck and have fun

Excellent question and excellent post from pegleg. I say amen to the snow! Snow is the best schoolmaster I know of for a person trying to get a dog going the right direction without help from a trained hound and an experienced bobcat man.

I differ a little bit in that I have stayed extremely closely involved in keeping a pup on the right track. I dont worry about them becoming too dependant on me. It has never been a problem later, although I suppose it could depending on the dogs personality. I actually keep the pup on a leash for a majority of the time until he is as cat minded as I am. I let him go only when the track is jumped and hot. If he makes a loose, I leash him up again until we get it lined out together. When it is hot and lined out, I let him go again. It sounds like an easy thing to do: follow a bobcat track in the snow. but it can be extremely difficult. The sooner you get that dog leashed up on a loose, the more time you will save sorting through a mess of dog tracks.

I also differ with a lot of people, well maybe most people, on the correction thing. I will be very hard on a pup with the correctioins. But I know the truth because he is right there on my leash!!! If he is not on my leash, I pretty much know the moment when he breaks on trash because I try to stay very close to him. they dont do it very much with me because they dont get away with it.

Beyond that, my pups learn very early that they MUST come when I call them. If I am in a position that I can not enforce the command, I dont give it. That is until I can trust them to obey me unconditionally. Since they MUST come when called or face consequences..... If I am in doubt about a situation.... I call them in!!! doesnt matter if they are on a cat or not, if they dont come, they have consequences.

this is my insurance that they will never be corrected out of place.

You are in the territory where I learned to cat hunt doing the very same thing you have planned. I wish you the best.

I recommend not being too hard on young dogs because I've seen so many ruined by it. People talk about how they won't hunt a shy pup. probably just as many are made that way as are born shy. The other reason is I never have snow to work on so my cat sign is intermittent at best. I have had what I was sure was a trash race that after a brief wait did turned out to be a legitimate cat track. a cold cat track is one thing but bumping a pup into a hot track or a lay up can sound like trash. I do stay as close to them as I can I just don't push noses into tracks or scat if he can't smell it on his own he can't run it. teaching a hound to search on command is useful in checking sign for freshness

david wrote:[I also differ with a lot of people, well maybe most people, on the correction thing. I will be very hard on a pup with the correctioins. But I know the truth because he is right there on my leash!!!

pegleg wrote:I recommend not being too hard on young dogs because I've seen so many ruined by it. People talk about how they won't hunt a shy pup. probably just as many are made that way as are born shy.

I am glad you clearified that because the way I made the statement sounds like "I am very hard on a pup" because that is exactly what I said.

But In my mind that means something different than it probably means to many others. I simply mean I educate the pup on what trash is. He knows exactly how I feel about trash, and he can know that without me ever even touching him because he comes to know my voice and it's different tones very well. He learns without a doubt what I want him to run and what I do not, and I just make it a goal that he NEVER gets away with running what I dont want him to run. If he NEVER has a pleasant memory about running deer, he will become trustworthy much earlier.

To me, "discipline" is the key. But that is a very deep word with many shades of meaning. It can not mean exactly the same thing to everyone because of so many different uses. But it is vital. I dont beat my children, but they are very disciplined and know the difference between right and wrong, and they choose right. I want the same for my dogs.

Discipline gives a dog, and even a shy dog, amazing and powerful self confidence. I have hunted several dogs that came to me as "shy". they did not end up as shy because they became extremely confident with what their bounderies were and they opperated completely without fear within those bounderies. Children are exaclty the same way. They actually WANT consistant bounderies, although they would never tell you that. They will blossom and grow and do amazing things when they know exactly what is always allowable and what is always not. It is almost embarrasing to point out how much children and dogs are alike in this.

I dont know how you do it with out snow though. holy cow. Snow is so amazing and before we are done that young dog thinks my nose is just as good as his, and that I know what he is smelling and I even know what he is thinking. He gets a very strong impression that he can not get away with anything without me knowing exactly what he is doing. This is one reason why I keep them on a leash for so much of the time. It establishes an understanding and a relationship of consistency and trust that could not be done any other way that I know of. He really comes to beleive I am a mighty hunter. I cant convince anyone else of that so I spend a lot of time convincing my dog of it. He will come to me when I "open" just like he would another dog because he trusts my nose. I could not get anywhere near this type training without snow though. Because, dont tell my dogs, but, I cant smell very good.

My hat is off to you pegleg if you can take a pup and make a streight bobcat dog out of him without the aid of another dog, man, or the great schoolmaster Snow. Phew.

Good post David.I can't think of anything much harder when it comes to training hounds than taking one on a leash and following a track.Its as tuff as it get's and separates the men from the boy's.But you will learn alot from it,about the game and your dog.You're right on about training kids and dog's to they are very much the same.IMO