BigGameHoundsmen.com

Me and a friend were talking today about the various breeds and strains of dogs. We got onto the topic of pup prices and couldn't figure out why there was such a wide variety of prices from breed to breed and strain to strain. Take for instance, a pup from Del Cameron will cost you $900 bucks and two years wait. You see Nance bred pups on here for around $500. I just bought a B&T from Duncan for $250. A pup from Crazy Cascade will run around $800. Why the variance? Will a Cameron bred dog catch up to 4 times the game a well bred B&T will catch? Do they only require 1/4 the training? I read on here that the Nance dogs are the top of the line. If so, wouldn't you think they would cost more that a Cameron? Don't think I'm badmouthing anyone, I just don't understand the difference.

Scott

Sheimer, give those SW Nance dogs a few more years and guys like mike and jeff and some of those guys will be getting what ever they want.

Exactly! Im not a Nance bred guy, but he's right. You get a good thing going and soon whoever is breeding those dogs can start charging whatever they want. Once a a certain breed of dogs makes a name for itself its just a matter of time before the price for those pups goes up. The Camerons have just been around longer is why I see the price difference.

marketing

phases. people get a good line market it. and boom! breed breed till they are average or less than then that quote/line dies down...then some one does a special cross that brings it all back from the dead.....frankly 80 percent of us dont hunt enough to really see what a line or a certain dog is truley capable of. so we get on the enet and look to see who has the greener grass.. the only phase i havent seen is the wolf pack phase wink lol but when there is theyll be 1000 bucks.

roflmao....... A pack of hounds are what the hunter makes of them, and the good hunters make a pack of lock down, game catching hounds from about any line of dogs! I just sold a litter of pups for $300 bucks and maybe that Cameron pup is worth three times as much, but someone is gonna have to prove it to ol' Ike!

I will make a breif comment on the SW Nance dogs. First I want to be perfectly clear. I have great respect for Mr. Jeff Allen and I own him a lot for his help and friendship over the many years. He is one of the best lion hunters and dog men I have ever met. Jeff has some fine walkers and many of them carry a lot of the Nance bloodline. However Jeff is not affiliated with the SW Nance Walkers, although he has some of the same bloodlines.

Also as far as pup pricing and selling pups , their popularity may possibly grow as a result of some very good dog work but the project is not intended to produce large quanities of pups for sale. The project effort has been to produce and enhance thru careful breeding and selective culling and placement an excellent type hound for bobcats and bare ground lion hunting.


I know it is easy to say this and much harder to attain or to stay true to the principal mission. They say demand and popularity can corrupt and I am sure this is what has happened to a lot of excellent bloodlines and breeding programs.

Right now I have a pretty long list of people who would like to be considered for a pup should one become available. I don't have any nor do my partners. We only have one female bred at this time and we are keeping all of those pups to measure overall litter quality. That is not an easy task but I don't know what else to do. So many times you keep a pup or two and they may turn out good but you hear different stories on some of the others and you really don't know first hand how they were handled or hunted. Not saying they may not go to even better hunters and handlers it is just not easy to compare as apples to apples. Many times we feel we get a pup or two out of a litter that really does well and then the rest may just be so so or culls.Well if that is the real case you need to change your approach so we need to know if we are going to attempt to retain and enhance the strain.

So I know this thread was about pup pricing and i know the range for that is all over the board.

A wise old man told me somthing a long time ago that I never have forgotten.


SON , THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE PUPPY.

A pup is only worth what you can get someone to pay for it.

Just as bearkiller said I think marketing is the biggest factor though.

I have had a number of thoughts on this subject, a few of which I have already posted. I believe as a general whole, houndsmen are way behind the curve on the pups pricing. If a guy does ANY research at all on any other breed of dog from a Toy Poodle to a Mastiff, hounds are by far the cheapest things you can get your hands on. The AKCs number 1 dog in the registry are Labradors. I know of many very well established kennels who sell quality labs for $1500+ and have waiting lists of 3+ years to get a dog....why? Because that kennel has quality dogs that were developed for a specific purpose and proven over time. People recognize that and they will pay for it. I also beleive that when a guy buys a puppy for $1000+ then he/she will actually train the puppy. I'm guilty of this in the past just like everyone but, houndsmen are notorious for buying a pup, showing it a few house cats and turning it down a track. Have you ever noticed how a well trained bird dog seems to speak english? The reason is those guys spend HOURS AND HOURS with their dogs every week. They take the investment seriously and they develop a real dog. A true partnership.

Now, do I think a $200-300 hound can be "just as good"? Absolutely. But, I know I would rather have a breeder who has had a very clear goal in mind and bred for that goal....oh, and in my opinion, "good dogs" in general don't count.

I have had packs of 10+ dogs who were all "well bred" mediocre hounds who didn't handle well. I'm over that. I would much rather have a select 4-6 dogs who I can spend the time with. SOme of you maybe the rare exception to the rule and spend time with you dogs, but I know statistically if a guy drops 1k he's gonna do his damndest to make things work right. As a guy who will breed in the future, I'm not advocating selling pups for a high price to make $$$....anyone with a lick of sense knows there is no $$$ in dogs, period. But, those guys who will pay are the type of guys I want hunting dogs from my lines.

Just my .2 cents

IMO, charging a little more for pups weeds out the guys that are on the fence and not really willing to put the time or money in to make a dog. Heck it's not the bloodlines that are important, it's what the dogs are doing with that blood isn't it?. Take care.

Brady : Perhaps I am the exception to the rule . Just retired ,so did my son from Air Force. We are moving to northern Maine . One of my biggest regrets due to age "63" Is that I never got started sooner with my own hounds. We have hunted a lot with outfitters and Hunting accomplices with hounds over the years . Sad to say there is a lot of TRASH hounds out there. however for a sport that both myself and son really enjoy.It turns out I feel that we are much better to have waited until now. Some of our huntingbuddies have got to the point of using them maybe 2-3 weeks out of the year.I just can not see doing that . If you can not put in the TIME you are doing yourself and the hounds no good. Just my personal perspective not knocking any one if that is the best you can do. Trying to gather a pack from pup to started to rig is best decided under the tree.. Not only do you have to consider next week, next month, next year ,and yes 5 years down the road But how as a pack you move forward .Money can buy you the right blood . But the satisfaction comes from the TIME YOU HAVE INVESTED

l agree with what Brady Davis said for the most part. I was in the pointer and lab "business" for a while. I have had the 100$ pups and the 1000$ pups and there is a happy medium in between. I once owned a lab that at 6 months old minded better than my children, new ever hand signal I could throw up, and make 200 yard blind retrieves. I gave $600 for that pup. She was one of the quickest learning dog I've ever owned. I talked to several guys that had pups from this breeder and they all said the same things. Before her I didn't do any back ground checks on breeders and payed the "average" price $300 for a pup and it took 6 months just to get a pup to quit chewing on your leg. I thought that was the norm and was fine with that. It's all in what your looking for and what your willing to pay.

you guys have stated some good points, the best hound i ever had was given to me by a local farmer, i have paid good money for pups since then and they werent a pimple on a hounds a$$ compared to old buck that i raised from 6 weeks old from the farmer. you can take a del pup and end up with a dink if you dont hunt them, just because you fell in too the big name breed doesnt mean you will get that miracle hound if you dont hunt them more than once a week

IMO- Pups just weaned, aren't worth much. I don't care what bloodline, or who made the breeding. There are culls in all lines and breeds. Some $200+ - pups will never be worth the money as adults.

Pups that come from great dogs, with solid breeding, from guys that hunt, that are doing something... are worth something. Problem is, most people don't hunt enough to know what's what. Even some great hunters don't know how to bring a pup on.

Like my buddy said once, "Most of the average public buying a hound pup, want a fancy story" some are willing to pay big bucks too.

I know that you usually get what you pay for... but if you know where to look you can get a started pup that is doing something for less than a "Fancy Story".

Take care.

All interesting points made. Coming from hog hunting, hog dogs are worth a whole lot less than a cat/bear dog. Pups go for a few hundred dollars.

There is a lot of crap being bred in hog dogs. Mostly bay competition dogs taking the hunt out of the dogs. Somone had mentioned in another post that the bay dog competitions are ruining hog dogs abilities in the field. The Catahoula breed especially. I know a guy in town who has been breeding catahoulas for the last 3 years. Litter after litter of dogs that have come from dogs that have never hunted. (nobody that posts in here)

Hog hunting with dogs has taken off in the last 10 years especially in texas. I hunt in central california and hog dog pups are still cheap. There isnt much demand for them as there isnt enough people with decent hog hunting access to warrent having any dogs.

There is also completely different thought processes when it comes to what somone wants in a hog dog. Central California hunters have been shifting to shorter and shorter range rougher dogs. The hogs in our area have been dogged so much that they almost never stop and will allow to be bayed. Nor Cal guys run bears/cats and hogs so they have a more traditional hound. Novices want a dog from a line thats from a magazine.

I have had offers in the early 2000's for finished dogs for around 3000 bucks. Today I might get half that for a finished dog if there was anybody even looking. Hog dogs usually dont make a name or reputation outside of their community especially if they are curs or crosses unless it comes from a bay dog competition line. Ive got a litter coming. I have never sold my dogs for more than the feed and shots I put into them. I doubt if I ever will. Most of my pups will go to people that I hunt with or some random hunters. I have always been willing to give pups away to a hunter before I sell one to somone as a pet.

Hog dogs will never be worth what the adverage hound goes for. They have no real history compared to traditional hounds. There arent enough hogs/hoghunters in most states to get national recodnition for a certain hog dog line. Also the variance in hunting styles for hog dogs for example, closed mouth as to open mouth trailers will always keep hog dogs low on the totem pole. As a general statement hog dogs tend to have shorter hunting career than a traditional hound. Thus the lifespan, popularity, reputation and price of hog dogs will always be less.