Pups on the Way

[Gary Roberson]

While I was travelling across the Southwest and Mexico, I had my Daisy bitch kenneled with Dan, her three year old son. Now I am a short time from having an unplanned litter. Daisy is an excellent reproducer and Dan is a very nice hound on coon as I have not hauled him as much as he does not belong to me. I raised him and gave him to Brandon Burch who was not hunting him so I picked him up.
What are your thoughts, is this too close???
Adios,
Gary

[JTG]

Gary, I can send you a ton of information on this subject just let me know. It depends is the answer, but I do not see it being a problem. I know of a family of blueticks ten times this with great pups with no issues. You would have just as much or more issues that come up with an outross. I just posted a bunch of stuff on the Bluetick website.
Really this is not a close breeding if the others in the family are not this close or closer and if so it would help you find faults in your bloodlne. Humans are the only ones that have a problem with this as nature does not.
Outcrosses does way more harm than family breeding.
JTG

[Dads dogboy]

Gary do not worry....just remember nothing is created in this mating....you have just concentrated the Mothers Genes. If she is the kind of female that I know you feed, well this should be a litter to take notice of!

If a pup shows up with a recessive bad trait or gene, it needs to be eliminated the soonest.

Well put JTG.....I have to get over to see you when next am in TX.

[JTG]

John, your welcome to do so. JTG

[Gary Roberson]

Thanks for the input. I am sending two down to Joe Braman and one is heading down to Phil Lyne so Shorty, looks like you will have more company. One is going into Mexico and I am sure I will keep one. Until I see what she raises, won't commit to selling any more pups.
Adios,
Gary

[slowandeasy]

Gary,


If you did homework in regard to all the dogs that will show up in the pedigree of these new youngsters. You will probably find out that this may be the most pleasant mistake that you ever made. There is some conversation in the general forum pertaining to this type of breeding. Might want to take a look at it. I certainly won't repeat myself again here, but you will get the general idea how I feel. From the looks of the above posts. Looks like I'm in pretty good company. Hope they all turn out. Good luck.

Take care, Willie

[Gary Roberson]

I will try to look at the post. I am really proud of the breeding of these dogs and have been working to get here for nearly 30 years. These are not competition hounds as they will work a cold track and while they are good tree dogs, don't normally "hug the timber". They are bad about climbing but I feel any dog that really wants to catch game will climb if the opportunity presents itself.
You will see that there is a lot of Smokey River Cheif that goes back to Diamond Jim, Upson Blue Boy II and Cl. River Diamond Jim that was sired by Rambo II. They are shorter earred than most blues and smaller in frame than what most bluetick breeders want but they seem to handle the heat a little better down here and that is very important.
Adios,
Gary

[JTG]

Gary, do you see blue eyes in some of those bloodline?

Jtg

[slowandeasy]

Wow, Gary correct me if I am wrong. Would that be Junior, (Blue boyII) Mr. Rowlands Dickies stud dog from years ago. If so, I had no idea that was the type of blood that you are running. I thought you were raising registered bluticks. Didn't know you were mixing some english dogs with them. It has been a long time. But one of the dogs. I advertised was chock-full of the Junior dogs. To name one other was Dickies Old Sandy. I could go on and on but a lot of water has passed under the bridge. Either way, some of that stuff could really open a big game hunter and Bobcat hunters eyes. Let me know if it is the same dog.

Take care, Willie

[Gary Roberson]

JTG, no blue eyes.
slowandeasy, no I am referring to Upson's Blue Boy II raised and hunted by Dennis Upson in northern WI. All of my dogs are registered blueticks.
Thanks and Adios,
Gary

[Gary Roberson]

Daisy brought me 6 live pups Easter morning. No Easter bunny, just blueticks. 3 males and 3 females. Daisy and Dan both have "cow licks" on the back of their necks and I think all of the pups but one have the same marking. Mr. Robert Hittson told me that all the old timers would fight over the pups with the "cow licks" as they would make the best dogs. If that is the case, I have some good ones.
Adios,
Gary

[Gary Roberson]

Something else that is a little different about this litter is the coloring on the pups. Daisy has a saddleback and open ticking much like her sire, Spur. Two of the pups appear to be classic bluetick colored and are females headed to Joe Braman. Two of the pups are predominantly black from the top of their heads to their tails, both males (I am keeping one and the other is headed to Montana to a lion hunter). Two have very few black spots other than their heads and appear to have very little ticking (one male and a female). The two largest pups at this time are the light colored pups.
Adios,
Gary

[hectorp]

Gary, I had a similiar situation like yours. I had a unplan breeding of brother and sister blueticks of Ormiston Breeding. In 15 years is my first accident of this type. Usually when a female starts to enter in heat I take her to the ranch and bring her back home when the heat is over. Nobody saw that the Rusty the male breed Julie and I took her to the ranch so she will not breed. One month later a brougth the veterinarian and told him it may be a false pregnancy. But no it was for real and a this time I have seven puppies 2 weeks old. I am only going to keep one and the demand was greater than the supply. I have sold them all except the one I am going to keep.

About close breeding that why I am posting, let me tell you two opinions of hunters that know a lot of genetics. One is late Richard Mc Duffie in the March 98 Full Cry Issue wrote the following:

Breeding for Results: Randal ask him what he tought about breeding two littermates: His answer was: What people are telling you about inheritance of genes could not be further from the truth. A pup inherits one gene for each trait from each parent. That scheme goes right on back, generation after generation.

It is true the farther removen an ancestor is, the less likel genes from that ancestor are to be inherited. That is especially true if the genes are dominant, for dominant genes do not skip a generation. However, recessive genes do skip many generation. They are passed down generation after generation, just waiting to find a match. It is when both partners of maiting carry reessive genes for a trait and a match results that those unexpected things crop up.

If the same ancstor shows up several times in a pedigree, it is likely that matches will find each other. I see no reason to not breed the two dogs in question. If a pup shows up in a litter with undesirable traits, you can always eliminate ite. The rest may, in fact are likely to, be all the parents are and more.

[hectorp]

The other opinon of the two littermates breeding was from Mr. Guy Ormiston he answer me by email and told me:

This bloodline has been able to take close breeding without any physical/mental problems.

Of course we don't know on each cross until we try it. There are a bunch of fine cooners in the pedigree, no physical shortcomings that I know of. I bet it will be all right. Let me know how it turns out. Thanks.


Gary, I hope your puppies turn into great coon and cat dogs.

Saludos

Hector

[Gary Roberson]

Thanks Hector, always great to hear from you. I will say that this is a pretty litter. The only problem to some breeders is that most are open ticked like the Daisy female and she got that from her sire, the Spur dog. As you know, color does not mean anything to me and when you look at my dogs, only takes a second to figure that out.
All of the pups are committed except the male that I am keeping. This male is not the pick male as he is going to Larry Anderson in Montana. The male I am keeping was laid on by his mother and I think his head was turned back. It pinched a nerve in his neck, causing him to loose control of his right front leg for a few days. My wife would hold him and rub the knot on his neck and eventually recovered. At any rate, Miss Deb fell in love with this pup and he loves her so I guess he is staying here.
Saludos,
Gary

P.S. Tell Hector to give us a call if he needs anything while attending school in Ft. Worth.