how do foxes run?

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

Iv been on a few runs with foxes but had to call off the dog because of private property roads ect. but i have gotten permission from a buddy of mine to hunt his property which has alot of swamp. Also hard woods, and open fields. and my question is what is the common pattern a fox runs? i know i probably opened up a big can of worms but il try and be specific... does it circle a few times? if so how large are the circles? does it depend on the fox, the pressure from the dog? also where and when are my best chances to find a fox, my hound is medium nosed and moves a track pretty fast. im just a newbie as you can guess and any pointers would help me out.. thanks in advance and happy huntin' Jon McMillan.

[Dan Edwards]

Yes, they circle. Greys circle smaller than reds and are much slower but are still "crafty". Fast dogs will put them in a hole quickly but slower dogs can run some reds all night long. Sometimes a red will take your dogs on a cross country tour just like a coyote.

[Lynxhunter]

Never hunted fox in the US, but I would guess a red fox will run aprox. the same over there as they do here.

Red fox do most of the time circle. If you run a lot in the same are and run into some old ones you'll probably be able to recognise them after their running pattern. Young fox will be more alike in their running pattern and older ones will develop their own specialities.

In my opinion its the hound that desides most how the fox will run. A wide open slow hound will make the fox circle better than a tighter mouth high speed hound. This is because a fox will always know where a slow open hound is, so it can stay ahead and have somkind of controll. My beagle is perfect in this way. He opens real early so the fox knows he's comming his way. Fox circle real good for him, especially if there is some snow. Circles of 200 yards are not uncommond.
Faster tighter mouthed hounds will most of the time make the fox run straight out for tens of miles or as Dan says make it go under ground. This is not a bad thing though. Get one of those crazy gritty terriers and toss down the hole and I'll promise you that you are in for one hell of a time!!!

Fox run often times run in the lightest terrain they can find if the speed of the hound is high. Edges of fields, frosen creeks in the winter and souch.
If the speed is slow they can go rock climbing on you. You'd be amazed how good a climber a fox can be. In this case you'll need a hound with brains like Einstein, that will leave the track on the bottom and pick it up again on top when its found its way up and in that way keep the preasure up.

The most important thing in my opinion, if you want to have a chance of a circeling run, is to have as litle human scent in the area as possible. If the fox smell you, he'll bail ship faster than you can say f... Get one of those high seats and put it in a place you believe in and just sit there and enjoy the run. Eventually the fox will come your way.

Before anyone of you guys come and arrest me:THESE ARE MY 2 CENTS, NOT SCIENTIFIC FACTS...

Hans

[Dan Edwards]

You are exactly right about the fox knowing you are there and not wanting to play anymore. Coyotes do the same thing. You might get a coyote to run pretty darn good in a big timber section but if he finds out there is a human involved in any way, he aint playin no more. He is gonna shit and get on oughta there. All he has to do is think he hears a truck engine kind of rev up or here a couple people laughin or talkin and he gone. Fast dogs will make the fox or the coyote act like this though. They know what is chasing them. If you take a couple slow tree hounds out or a some slower beagle and run either with them, they will not leave town but you put a couple dogs on them that can fly and you got a runner on your hands. My plan is always to have a dog that can catch the fox or coyote though. I am not much into the race or the music. I am interested only in the catch and what happens then. Its not that I dont like dogs or "the hunt" but I feel that I am a hunter and my job is to have dogs that catch game, not just run it.

[Lynxhunter]

Soooo, are you emplying that we "run and gun" hunting style guys dont kill foxes Dan??? Just keeping them in shape ey??
-That kinda sounds like an provocation in my ears.......

Hans

[Dan Edwards]

No, that is not what I meant at all. I can assure you that I like to jack around and busty somebody's balls as much as anybody but try not to do it to those who I enjoy having hunting conversations with and as of right now you are in that category.

I have nothing against run and gun type hunters. I dont do it that way but I do appreciate those that do just as much as any type actually.

[Dan Edwards]

Starting here in a few weeks, I will be hunting at night only until the first of October so running and gunning just wont work for me.

[Lynxhunter]

He he, that was my way of poking you in the side Dan(could be I'm not to good at cracking jokes in english yet....)
I've deep respect for you coursing guys. Until I started waching this forum, I never thought it would be possible to course predators with any kind of consistency.

This does not change the fact that I believe that a tight mouth racer and an insane terrier, is what will fill the wall on your shed with furs first

Hans

[Dan Edwards]

I'm actually not a courser bro. I run mostly pure July foxhounds right now that I got from a few different fellas. I plan on making me some foxhound type lurchers though as soon as I can. They will be alot of fun to fool with.

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

Thank you for all the feed back, this will help me out. i have one more question though, my beagle walker mix moves a track medium to pretty fast so most likely it will circle correct? if so, should i wait where it started just like for a rabbit, or does it depend?

[Lynxhunter]

Just my opinion again, Beaglewalker, but fast is a relative measurement. Fast for some are medium to others...
Based on the fact that your dog is a beagle walker mix and if he got a beagles heart, I would guess that fox will circle for him, but probably with somewhat bigger circles than my 16" beagle. Than again it also depend on how open and loud he is...
The jump is in my opinion always a good place to be, no mather what species you are running with a running hound. Check the wind carefully and use your imagination. Go out into the woods, run fox and try to learn from it. Get a notebook, draw notes and take them out from time to time and try to find a pattern.

Also a good tip for some fun hunting: Get a Garmin Astro, so you can see where the hound is going. Change the hunting in to "a game of chess", try to predict where the fox is going to go next. - This has given me a lot of rewarding hunts, especially when hunting alone, which I prefer.

Looked into those Julys and Lurchers Dan. Think I understand better what you are talking about now and I would say that my repect have not declined, more increased, especially since you are running at night. IMPRESSIVE!!!

Hans

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

Unfortuantely i dont have the money for a tracking collar, it sure would come in handy. i will try and find a pattern without it though. im excited to give this a try tomarrow or the next day im gunna run her. Sorry i have so many questions i really appreciate all the advise. Thanks again and happy huntin, Jon McMillan.

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

we ran 5 foxes over the course of two days. and 4 holed up after just a straight run for about half a mile. but 1 ran a nice circle covering about a quater mile. the dog ran really great. something interesting that i never excpected happend, the dog ran this fox for a good half a mile to his den but he didnt go down his hole..? he stood at the etrance of his den snarling at the dog. then the dog charged it and grabbed it and shook it the fox didnt like that and wiggled out between my dogs teeth and then slid down the hole. i never excpected the fox to turn and fight like that but it sure was intersting to watch. happy huntin, Jon McMillan.

[Lynxhunter]

Damn, thats a super start Jon! You just keep on running that pup hard on those reds of yours 'till she figures them out and let her finnish all unfinnished work(after a shot) and soon you'll have a dog that suits Dans taste.
-Been saying for a long time that a hound with long legs and a beagles heart will take a hunter a long way(not miles...).

Imagine what would happen if you had a terrier capable of skinning a badger twize its sieze in a mudhole and you tossed it down one of them holes....

Yeah, some of them redfoxes are kind of tough. Never heard of something like that though..

Hans

[beaglewalkerhunter4]

well that is a great saying. and i guess only time will tell to see if Bandit will turn out to be a real good one. i have actually been real intersested in one of them grity terriors but my dad wont let me have another dog. about that fox fighting here are a few of my thoughts: it was thinking about going down that hole which maybe wasn't his and before he had time to figure it out bandit was on him so he reacted agressivley. or maybe she had babies and didnt want to lead bandit to them, but isnt it early for that. just my two cents on what happend. il be sure to PM you once we get our first fox. Thanks again for all of your advise its taken me a ways already.
Happy huntin, Jon McMillan.