Cold nosed plotts?

[mike martell]

Justahunter

Yes sir it is...I don't like tossing names out is all. Looking at many of the plott hound strains such as mine, they just didn't have the athletesism to catch the hard running coastal bears of years past. Catching a large boar that is mean is easy, dogs can get in and out quick, the real test is catching an athletic 90 pound 15 year old sow that can run like a greyhound and fight like a gator.... Not trying to pick a fight but simply explain what drove me away from the breed. I watched as a young walker dog blew me out of the woods, treed an hour before my plotts arrived at the tree...How many times does a man walk into another mans dogs treed and your hounds aren't standing under the tree and show up as you are ready to walk back to the truck?...Before you can bay a bear, you must first stop it or your catch rate goes down....

I tried dogs built for speed from different breeders, they didn't cut it...The same can be said about bobcat hounds, it does little good to have the pizazz and track style and speed and no ability to locate in big timber....This is why I strive to feed two styles of hounds, those that can stop a bear and locate in big timber on bobcats, I'm of the opinion constant pressure applied catches lots of bears where my plotts had more sheer grit? The walkers tree more game and why I cull lion and coon dogs, both in my mind aren't worth feeding. I have been fortunate to live a lifetime of hunting most tree game in both the lower 48 and in Canada....Now couple in the Canadian lynx with the same hounds as food for thought in the hound you pick as the best tool for the job....I'm well beyond breed or color...I have little time left to hunt and will pick a hound that gets it done regardless of the tree game, terrain or location...Some guys tell me it's plotts, some say blueticks.....I say enjoy your time because we are all here for a very short time! Remember to stay humble!

Mike

[brian j cerelli]

real nice post/pictures mike! lots of true statements, especially about these 90 lbs bears on the coast, spot on comment.

[HOGMAN]

Theres good and bads in every breed some do it and some dont.... In ANY GAME you may be hunting.

[justahunter]

My plotts are the ones that the guys walk into and wait for there dogs to arrive . many many times this happens . not Trying to brag but i must tell the truth . bill wenner a walker guy through and through can tell you that. Many others. What i love is when i turn into a race that is 20 or 30 min going right where they started it and next time u see them cross they are in the lead. Or when i been running a bear for about 3 hours and someone turns in and 3 more hours go by and they are picking up dogs while i am still following mine. i will put it this way i dont tree every bear but every once in a while a runner does enough tricks to lose them . mean bear has its hands full and usually can get them treed. My plotts have tons of speed and run wide open with head up. There are plenty of other breed that do this to except redbones and blueticks just kidding. These dogs just work great for me . i also cull real hard to keep this.

[Mike Leonard]

Some really great stuff coming out of this post! I hunted bears for quite a few years but I sure would never tell anybody I was a real bear hunter. I have been around real bear hunters and real bear hounds and I can tell you I am not even close to their league. I quit hunting bears when they closed Colorado down to bear hunting. that was a great state to hunt bear and I was close to some super rig hunting areas. Now here in New Mexico they still have hound season in the fall and let me tell you any range that has roads and bear in it will be bumper to bumper rigs, and it can get a little crazy I am told. I have a ton of respect for good bear hunters and good tough bear catching hounds!

I have seen a few plotts that could start and trail a 2 day old lion track under the right desert conditions. I sold one such hound to an Outfitter near Globe, Arizona, and he still talks about this dog and says he was the best dry ground lion hound he has ever seen. This dog was not bred for lion he was bred for bear thru and thru and was heavy on both sides back to Cascade Big Timber. Was a freak? Maybe, but he could get the job done in very hot dry weather, and you don't find of any breed or cross that can do that.

You will find most old time dry ground lion hunters running crossed up dogs of old family breedings, but those dogs are getting more and more bred out each generation, and a I have noticed a shift starting to happen even in their ranks. Now admittedly not many hunters these days are willing to ride a horse or mule all over them rugged mountains and willing to hang and work on an old track when it may be the only lion sign you have crossed in many days of riding. Most want to drag a road and run it early with a four wheeler and see if anything crossed that night and go from there, and that is a darn good method, but it does not require the same type of dog the walk or mule riding free cast dirt hunter needs to be consistently successful.
I was conversing with a hunting friend of mine yesterday and he was telling me about an 18 month old female he has that is out of my late Sammie dog and his male dog. he said she can take a 3 day old froze down snow track and move it at a steady pace and seldom make a loss. she is not flying down it just a nice steady pace which means she is having to trail but doing a good job for a dog of her age. In fact I have seen numerous older seasoned hounds that have dozens of catches to their credit that look pretty crappy or maybe can't move at all on this type of a track. Now without luck and maybe using your noggin you seldom catch on this old of a track, but it happens enough to make it worthwhile unless you live in lion country where they are just thick. This female was bred for dry ground hunting but she is showing some real promise on older snow tracks, and he said a day old track she is like a heat seeking missile. No she is not a plott, but I mentioned this just to give you an idea of the type of dog I was looking for when I started this thread.

I recall 3 plott guys from 2 from Utah (Willis Butolph, and Gordon Pace) and one from Wyoming Olen Greer who were well known for cold trailing plotts but I never really knew what became of their line of dogs after these old boys headed for the happy hunting ground.

[justahunter]

I think horse back and walk hunting are my favorite for lion hunting and spring bear. Its good for the dogs and you get in places others dont because of accessability . i like to hunt off of a quad to that gets in some place most dont go as well. I am guilty of running off of bait and rigging roads when weather is good and roads are clear of drifts. That just goes to show a dogs ability. Like i said its good for the dogs. I think it makes for a better dog in general. I also agree that this is a great post hope it keeps on. Curious to here others experience with plotts.

[1bludawg]

Does anyone remember Leroy Fontorous(maybe misspelled) of Wyoming i think ?He owned a great looking plott that was supposed to be great on bobcat.I believe his name was Rawhide.If i remember right he won a world championship cat hunt.I would think he was used on lion to but can't remember his bloodlines .This was back about 3 or 4 decades .I was impressed by the dogs looks.

[pegleg]

Plotts probably suffer from lack of breeding for nose more then most breeds just given their typical use and style of hunters that prefer them. I would guess guys using them on coyote and lion probably ask for more nose then others.

[mike martell]

[justahunter]

Good read .

[dhostetler]

The sad thing with the GPS collars there will never be anymore stories of 2 day bear bayups

[mike martell]

[Mike Leonard]

Cougar Lee Fatorus was from Livingston, Montana area and yes they use to have a cat dog trial someplace in that area and he had Rawhide who I believe was Cascade bred and he won it one time. I don't recall if it ever said how many cats it took to win over the other dogs, and possibly he was the only dog that got a cat. Bob Marosok of Sheridan , Wyoming bought Nance's Little Topper (treeing walker) from Lester Nance, and he was the only dog to ever win this cat dog championship 2 years back to back.


I have been reading the book ( Strike and Stay) by Bob Plott about the early days of the breed and how they came over from Germany. I haven't got all the way thru it but one thing I can tell is that accurate breeding records were not kept over a long period of time, and with all the loose dogs running around those pioneer areas back then they didn't stay 100% pure. John Plott even talked about tying one bitch out to a big apple tree on the edge of his property where a big wolf would come by and breed her and he would have some part wolf hybrids to work with. Not sure if that is true but it is probably about as close as some of the other stories.

Mike M , I also heard stories where the cold nose came on some of Willis Butolph's plotts, and the one I heard had to do with Pioneer Drum and where he got the long ears.

[ol'guy]

The world champion bobcat trials was held in Nova Scotia Ca. in earley 70's I believe it was only held 2-3yrs some ny. News paper (magazine )publisized it as run,tree and blast away END OF HUNT not sure of exact wording but close I also heard of some controvecy ?????
Will check with friend of mine he was there

[blackcreekboy]