Has it always been this hard?

[perk]

Mule man, hate to hi jack thread bc original question was about finding a dog not the ins and outs of breeding. I think how goood a dog is has a lot to do with environment too, best bred pup hunted dozen times a year way less likely to be good as same pup hunted dozen times a month. That doesn’t make breeding a crap shoot. How did we get different breeds and a general expectation of their traits if not for specific breeding, hard hunting, honest evaluation and strict culling? Did the treeing walker just happen to show up, not because it was selectively bred for out of foxhounds? Does the confirmation and actions of these large English style packs of fox dogs happen to be a product of chance? Melvin Poe who was a MFH bred big red dogs who all looked the same and ran the same, you saying he wasn’t predictable?
Famous old time fox hunter/breeder was quoted saying something to the effect that any strain of hound could be taken by 4 different hunters with 4 different ideals and in 4 generations have 4 completely unrecognizable dogs from where they started.
I think we all know your stance on the subjects of breeding and catching cats in south Louisiana. You have been vocal, (which is fine by me) and stated why you feel that way based on your experience. Which is also good with me. We just have to agree to disagree about it and talk about things we got in common. I’ve hunt dogs from very few people, and raise 90% of what I hunt and usually those pups are predicatable what they will do once once hunted hard in the right game.
Happy hunting
Perk

[Irish Jack]

https://www.houzz.com/products/life-siz ... r~61177021


This may be what you need, you can leave him in the yard 4-5 years no problem. (that is nearly half the life of a dog)

Jack

[bear-chic]

[bowieknife50]

I don't really have enough experience to comment but I do have a line that I would probably be using in this situation.

It's not that I don't believe you, I just have to see for myself.

Do what you want and see how it works out for you.


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[macedonia mule man]

Chick, have a friend out west that hadn’t hunted much but decided he wanted to coon hunt. Bought a couple of red tick female pups from the Texas panhandle . Top side was Oney bred and I don’t remember the bottom. The pups complete background was coon dogs from way back. When they were of age, he started walking them up creek drainages. One evening before dark he went out, they struck,ran and treed. A BEAR and they were coon bred for generations but someone forgot to tell them. I don’t know if they ever treed a coon or not but made very good bear dogs. I brought a male pup back to Louisiana that struck, ran and treed the weekend (Saturday night) that I started hauling him the Monday before. He was out of one of the females. Made a fine coon dog. You never know how your dogs are going to turn out or what they will be good at till you try. I would beware of some of this dog GuRu advice, to much info can scramble your gut feeling which is your best info.

[Nolte]

This has been a long thread but I've got a couple additional thoughts. People starting out always get going with too many dogs and frankly that sets them back. The old saying of you don't need more dogs, just better ones always ring true. Better to focus on one or two to get going vs a truck full.

Secondly, breeding dogs is an art and a crapshoot. Rock star to Rock star with high hopes on the litter almost always gets me duds. Maybe 1 or 2 serviceable dogs. I'd rather breed a couple solid dogs with solid littermates and we might still get duds but most times the odds are better for something decent. Specials dogs are just that, special. They don't come around very often and even those have some sort of hole in them. All dogs have a weakness, its just that most times the owners ego won't let them see it.

Lastly, today the availability of good dogs is much worse than years ago. There is so much junk out there from poor breeding practices and it just keeps getting worse. Those old dog hunters who had a lifetime passion for it are mostly gone and the ones who are left we are losing way too fast. Most guys in it now are dog jockeys looking to spin a buck off of pumping out as many dogs as possible without any concern of the direction its pushing the breeds in general. These lines of dogs that get thrown around are long, long gone. People just can't or won't dedicate the time, money and commitment it takes to establish a line of dogs.

My advice, try to get some dogs from that good hunter you know and hunt them with theirs to get them started. Once they are pointed the right direction, take the training wheels off and see what they can do in their own. Also, dont be afraid to try something else if you want. But also dont be afraid to move on if its not working and try again. The name of this game is managing expectations, disappointments and to keep trying because every once in awhile the stars align and you get stuff that's really working. When that happens, dont fall into the trap that you've got it all figured out because you are one bad day or year away from starting all over.

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